To think men only get praised for doing the bare minimum in relationships because expectations are on the floor?

[CandidUmberUser]

“He cooks.” “He listens.” “He doesn’t cheat.”
Wow. Nobel Peace Prize incoming.

It’s done by WOMEN who are just as bad for enabling this. Want to blame someone, blame the women who indulge, enable and accept this/

Its been explained multiple times by countless women on here that in most cases, they don't marry them. The man they marry is young enthusiastic, very few responsibilities or challenges to test his mettle and show his character. He is quite often an entirely different person from the 45 year old who finds family life too hard or boring for his tastes, so opts out, or cheats with his colleague.

Exactly, I have zero sympathy or understanding for a woman who not only puts up with it but even defends a man like this.

Only live with it and marry, if it significantly improves your already good life, otherwise don't bother.
If you're not into family and kids, even better.
Speaking for myself.

NAMALT. My partner and I share tasks pretty much 50/50, albeit that he'll do most of the heavy lifting and I'll wield Henry 'cos I like his little face (Henry, not my DP!) - he's 70.

Society has shaped this low expectation of men pulling their weight. You never describe someone has a really hands on mum.

However, people need to take ownership of their own relationships and expectations.

I do think people put significant focus on looks when first seeking out a partner and then start to bend their expectations for aim of holding on to a good looking partner.

Honestly how many men start off as genuinely attentive, good listeners and caring and then turn into lousy father/husband. For most the signs are there but their looks/outgoing personalities allow their partner to ignore or defer addressing the issues.

'Want to blame someone, blame the women who indulge, enable and accept this'

Listen to yourself. Lazy men are not an inevitable part of life, like bad weather. They can, and should, do better. I agree that some women absolutely do need to raise their standards, but the shame here is on the men who behave like overgrown children. Stop blaming women for everything!

As much as I'd like a relationship this is partly why I'm not putting myself back out there.

I've historically done so much of the emotional and financial and mental labour and I just don't have it in me anymore.

Would I like a partner who is truly a partner? Yes. But I don't want to be someone's mum, maid or therapist.

People tell me I'm lucky that my DH does more than half the cooking. Why? He eats too! The same people don't tell him he is lucky that I clean the toilet, do the laundry and clear up after he has made a huge mess whilst cooking ...so I remind them!

He gets all the praise for a delicious meal if we have visitors. I do all the invisible stuff that no one notices!

45, you say? So round about the time that perimenapuse is well underway for women? A time when hormonal changes mean women lose their nurturing drive?

I'd argue that it's not necessarily the men who change in their 40s and 50s but the women who finally tire of something that was always there.

My daughter is at university and started seeing someone not long after she started. She told me that she had concerns that his parents had sorted out his student finance for him and his accommodation when she'd done that by herself. By the time his parents were coming to take his laundry home to wash it and talking about helping him sort out his second year accommodation, she was out of there because, "I'm not going to risk being with someone who expects the same from me."

Thee are women on here who pack for their husbands when they go on holiday!

Well, certainly on MN lol. The smallest disagreement between a couple is “emotional abuse” on the part of the man and it’s straight to “LTB”. Whether you’re 5 dates in, or you’ve been married 10 years and have 8 week-old twins.

That being said, far too many women have standards in the actual GUTTER and will put up with the most diabolical behaviour to avoid being alone.

Exactly this.

I've known a few relationships breakdown amongst friends/peers due to 'new' behaviours that everyone else has always been able to see.

'Thee are women on here who pack for their husbands when they go on holiday!'

My mother used to do this. Not just pack, but go through all his summer clothes before the holiday, work out what he had, chuck out old stuff and buy new stuff for him and then pack it all nicely for him🙄 Fucking crackers

Absolutely reminded me of this.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8oIoYtsGpc/?igsh=bWt2amh0a2ZhZ25p

When I had my new born , pharmacy staff would fawn over my husband just for holding our son.Along with other people now he is 3 yrs old. Everything is 50/50 in our house and dare I say it , yes my husband does slightly more and he does drop off and pick up from nursery as near his work.
I agree a cultural issue.

In relation to all the comments about male behaviour being ‘on women’ to change, I believe the data indicates that women are choosing to remain single and childfree in higher numbers than ever before - in fact one study predicted that 45% of women aged 25-44 will be single by 2030.

And in real life I know a number of younger women who have opted to be single instead of tolerating a crap, disappointing man.

But society doesn’t really like that either - look at the response on this thread to a poster who said she ditched a man who didn’t meet her expectations, basically asking why she didn’t just meet her own expectations. We can’t win. If we tolerate their behaviour, then it’s ‘on us’. If we don’t, we’re unreasonable.

Yep, let's blame women for men being useless.

I don't think that women are responsible for changing men's behaviour. Only they can do that.

I do think that women are responsible for the behaviours they personally choose to accept in a relationship, though.

Oh yes, men’s poor behaviour is women’s fault, of course!

This issue is crystallised by the 'single mother' scapegoating. Women are blamed for getting pregnant as though it happens by itself and men aren't criticised for abandoning their children or not financially contributing.

Why aren't men held to account for their behaviour?

We have a VAWAG crisis in the UK and what exactly is being done to counteract the men and boys who are growing up with misogynist views of women? They certainly aren't being punished by the justice system.

Why aren't men held to account for their behaviour?

Absolutely. And the available data suggests that women are increasingly opting not to accept bad male behaviour in relationships. But my point is that as a society we don’t really like women who have standards and expectations about how they want to be treated, either.

Why blame the women for how men choose to behave?

So when women behave badly are men responsible for that?

There are loads of ugly introverted men who also are terrible husbands and fathers.

What “nurturing drive”?

A man doing literally anything with a baby or toddler (a walk to the park for example) is treated like a virtual superhero

For my friend it was barely mid 30s. The young, energetic, true “partner” she married became a layabout post marriage once their first son arrived.

Specifically she took on more of the domestic load while on maternity leave. Once she went back to worried she expected things to revert to the equal balance they had pre-maternity leave. He refused he decided he no longer wanted to do anything remotely domestic and only did limited childcare.

My friend said he seemed to assume because she was locked in with marriage and her baby she would not leave. He was wrong. She was about 34 when she divorced him.