To be glad schools are finally hitting back

[Teachingquestion]

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

Quite. In addition happily ignoring all the very strict schools in special measures.

Uniforms are good imo. Otherwise you have the children from better off families going to school in their branded stuff, whilst others turn up in Primark. Children can be very judgemental of each other. Uniforms don’t differentiate and put children on a level with each other.

That's not how it works in places where there are no uniforms.

This is because kids do not place a premium on the forbidden fruit of non-uniform clothing when they wear their own choice of clothes every day of their lives.

I suspect British kids would get ovethit in about a week if they were allowed.

And yet, look at the graduates of Eton...

It depends if it is enforceable. The HT at my primary school tried to send a child home who came to school with a highly contagious illness. His parents didn’t bother to pick him up.

It's the failute of schools to do anything effective about the behaviour that means these kids are flung on the dust heap before they've had a chance to change direction.

And yet, elsewhere in the world, schools turn out students who are accepted into top universities in their countries, despite the lack of uniform.

My DCs went to a public (aka state) high school in the US where there was no uniform, a very mixed intake, and disciplinary policies that were developed in committees comprised of various parent groups plus teacher reps plus members of the school board, and the district superintendent. So questions like why were African American kids getting a disproportionate number of detentions led to a professional study that showed this number could be greatly cut down. A question about detentions related to being tardy to class was answered with a card swipe system so all students who were late were flagged, not just some who were not popular with their teachers. All costing $$$$$ but also indicative of a sincere willingness to work together to solve problems and improve relationships.

Above all, money was spent on counseling staff to allow troubled students to discuss their difficulties before attendance and performance were affected.

In the UK, strict uniform policies take the place of collaboration between schools and community, and faith in the magic qualities of clothing takes the place of money spent by schools to deal with the real issues that are making schools fail.

Unfortunately they really don't, you can still tell the rich kids and the poor kids. Uniform hides nothing. Put a rich kid into Primark - they still wear it like a rich kid.

I've worked in a high school for many years, its also a school in a deprived area that demands £000s for branded uniform, there is little parental choice as all the schools in the town are run by the same (or similar) academy trust.

The new head has gone on a power trip regarding uniforms, our school was the only one still forcing students to wear full uniform and blazers in the recent heat wave (rather than allowing PE kit - other schools within the same trust were allowing it so it seems it was purely the heads decision). We had multiple kids sent home for heat stroke that week and it took a facebook campaign (and the involvement of the local papers) for them to relent for the hottest day but the damage was done, attendance rates dropped off a cliff, essentially kids missed out on education because of a petty control freak jobsworth who was "preparing kids for the world of work" (I've previously held professional jobs, most just required smart/casual and those that required a uniform - we had air con which the school definitely does not and I could also use the loo if I needed and take off outer layers of clothing when I saw fit). I've lost a lot of respect for the school and its policies as first and foremost the job of any school is to give the kids an education. I feel the school infantilises the kids constantly which is not preparing them for the world of work at all.

All this is doing is making the kids stressed and hate school, they lack respect for the teachers who implement these batshit rules so misbehave so the school introduce more draconian policies. The toilets are locked except for lunch/break and usually have huge queues so kids kick off and are disruptive in lessons simply because they need the loo. Multiple platforms/apps for homework so kids miss stuff and get into trouble and terrible home-school communication.

In defence of uniforms - my son's uniform changed last year and parents were able to buy non branded t-shirts fir the first time. A boy went round the school pointing at kids without branded t-shirts trying to humiliate them for "being poor". My son (in his non branded t-shirt) couldn't care less but apparently a few kids were upset and the boy wouldnt leave them alone. The teachers were too busy fussing about the colour of socks to deal with the boy bullying.

However if there was no uniform at all, then incidents like that would increase when kids don't wear mainstream clothing or the right names.

Surely it’s primarily a failure of the parents.

Even with uniform kids know difference. Shoes, pencil case, bag - even the carrier bag they use for sports kit. Uniform is not a leveller.

My sons school has loads of pernickety rules and regularly sends passive aggressive texts out then question why parent/school relationships are often poor and uptake for September is at a all time low.

My kids went to a non uniform primary. No one cared at all about clothes (and some fashion choices were…eclectic).

One then went to a private selective secondary where the uniform exists but frankly is very relaxed and they are always trying to ‘personalise’ them. No one gets detention. So long as you show up and learn, the school isn’t going to throw a tantrum.

The other is headed for a state secondary which has no uniform and yet outperforms many of the non selective privates. Kids there wear whatever they feel comfy in. The only rule is that it has to be functional for school (so no four inch heels etc).

The kids really don’t care about what everyone is wearing. They get on with the more important job of human interaction.

I attended a primary school with no uniform. In P6 and P7 I was bullied for not having new and/or fashionable clothes.

I had problems at secondary, but the uniform had a levelling effect. Blazers were preferred but not mandatory. Uniform items did not have to be bought from particular outlets - we just had to wear particular colours: white or blue blouse plus tie; navy or grey skirt; navy or grey cardigan or jumper.

53 yrs later, the tie and blazer are the same; other items just have to be black. Shirt can be white if desired and girls can now wear trousers or skirts.

Every other secondary school in the LA has the same basic uniform - only the tie and blazer badge is different.

Then if you don’t have a choice of schools and you’re not happy with your child’s school rules, then you could always go to governors, become a governor yourself or home educate. It’s no wonder teachers are leaving the profession in droves. It’s impossible to discipline children without parental support 🙄

It’s definitely a good thing and much needed! People need to realise that most schools are no longer the environments they remember from even as recently as 10/15 years ago.
Strict uniform rules leads to compliance with rules in general. Many students will leave school and will have to wear a uniform for work so this is good practise.
I don’t think those complaining about detentions for not having equipment are aware of how much of an issue this actually is. An average secondary teacher teaches 150 kids a day, in each of those classes there will be around 10 students without a pen or a pencil. If you lend them one you will be lucky to get 8 back. By the end of the day you have lost 10 pencils. That box you are given at the start of the year will be gone within the first two weeks, there isn’t a budget for any more. Who exactly do you think is providing the pens after this point? It’s the same kids turning up without a pen each day. The same kids will have iPhones, expensive trainers, false nails and eyelashes etc. If a teacher had to waste 5 minutes at the start of a lesson dishing out pens then this is disruptive for the students who have bothered to turn up prepared. It’s a parents job to ensure their kid has plenty of equipment for school. If we repeatedly turn up for jobs as an adult without the tools or equipment tp enable us to do our job then this will also result in consequences. This responsibility needs to be taught from an early age.
For those criticising silent corridors, you clearly have no idea what behaviour has led to that rule being imposed. In the last school I worked in, kids would run through the corridors screaming, barging others and damaging walls, kicking doors, notice boards and even knocking ceiling tiles. Some kids are absolutely feral. Some of the behaviours and bullying that kids are getting away with also needs to be addressed. As this impacts other students as well as staff. Why should teachers be prevented from teaching by disruptive kids who think they are above rules? These kids always have parents who think they can do no wrong.

You sound fantastic. I have a similar child and parent in my class and it makes it so.much easier for school abd paremt to say same thing

Parents job to ensure that children are in the right uniform (it’s made very clear at the start of school year). Surely if a child wants to learn, then they should make sure they have a pencil case, with pen, pencil etc. You as a parent should ensure they have these things.

Teachers have enough to do without having to deal with kids who have bloody useless parents who can’t get the basics right.

I think the lack.of equipment and school.providing it constantly is the slow creep of entitlement and lack of self respect

I agree ! If a pencil is no big deal , bloody buy one for your kid then!

Tbh my pet peeve with high school these days is sen parents who wont take any responsibility or hold their child accountable. Iv lost track of the number of times friends and FB groups are giving off massively at the school and senco but not actually holding themselves or their. child accountable because they have additonal needs - before anyone jumps im talking kids who can cope ok in mainstream with some support and measures, not kids who should have special school places

Autistic secondary teacher here.

I think we've got a couple of problems in education at the moment to be honest.

Firstly, parents feel completely locked out. I mean they can't actually even get in the door of most places. This is really problematic. We're constantly asking them to trust us but then we don't repay this by trusting them. The message we're sending is that they're the problem. No one is going to want to work with you if they think you hate them.

Secondly, some of the kids are really vulnerable due to circumstances beyond their control. Services have completely collapsed. These young people are in real difficulty and there's nothing there for them or their families. The level of frustration, magnified often-times by poverty, is truly appalling.

But the biggest problem we've got is that people don't think we're all on the same side. Sorry, but as someone who's just been part of a team dragging a school out of special measures into good in all areas, it takes a helluva lot of patience and negotiation. You can't just stand there and say 'We're right, you're wrong.' That doesn't fly. You need to start with trust. People have to believe in you. And no one is going to believe in you if all you're interested in is punishment.

Its not about not having a pencil its about forgetting it. So when a child forgets their pencil you go and send them home 😂

So please answer me if a child forgets their f pencil would you send them home or would you give them a f pencil and continue with your lesson and ask them to make sure they bring their f pencil next time they are in.