I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

[RevolutionHere]

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

The reason teachers go on about the stress of the job etc is because they are constantly told it’s piss easy etc. when mumsnet starts a weekly thread about how easy it is being an accountant, civil servant, receptionist etc you’ll see loads of comments saying how hard it is to do their job. I have been on mumsnet for years and have never seen a teacher start a thread saying my job is the hardest one there is.

well this wasnt the point of my thread - i was saying there were more exhausting jobs @Superhansrantowindsor

I'm sure being a welder is exhausting. Just wondering, how much welding does he do at home? How much welding does he do at the weekend. How much mental energy is exerted by the welding? How much responsibility does he have for other welders? How often is he feeding fellow welders, or washing their clothes or saving then from abuse or neglect?

Not a teacher btw, just severely dislike how much teachers are denigrated on mn.

I’ve had physical jobs and been a teacher. Teaching is mentally exhausting you get home and just want to sit staring at a wall.

If you think it’s not exhausting, I implore you to shadow me for the week (SENDCo in mainstream secondary, plus extensive teaching timetable).

I estimate that, on top of teaching 300 children per week, I have meetings with 30 parents/local authority people/safeguarding professionals/primary teachers/SLT. Plus hundreds and hundreds of emails to respond to.

I would LOVE to swap with a welder for the week.

lol @ProfessorRizz
i didnt say it wasnt exhausting i said there were other jobs more exhausting imo

I've been a primary teacher - the most difficult job physically and mentally I have ever had.

I am now in a corporate role, paid more and have a far better quality of life.

If people think teaching is easy (I used to) go and do it. If you do it properly it is one of the hardest jobs out there.

But most of their holidays are spent working in some capacity. Marking, planning, getting their classrooms ready.

Technically, so did the “eegyt” since he didn’t say teaching is more exhausting than ALL other jobs.

If teaching was so wonderful with great perks and an easy life then there wouldn't be a recruitment issue and more leaving each year than being trained.

I did some voluntary work in a deprived secondary school with the aim of applying for a PGCE. It put me off teaching for life. I'll stick with my voluntary work in the community with children for one hour a week thanks.

I think of teachers were allowed to just teach without the ridiculous paperwork or micromanagement then I think they couldn't justify the longer holidays.

I didn't hear it but I'm pretty sure no one said 'we have objectively measured all jobs and teaching is the most exhausting of them all', did they? Something can be exhausting and other things also be exhausting 🙄

So the title of your thread where you said ‘I don’t believe teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs’ as what? A typo?

The biggest difference is that tmost people know, believe and accept that being a doctor is hard work and exhausting. It isn't challenged.

People believe doctors when they say it and anyone with an ounce of intelligence or imagination wouldn't question it.

They generally don't have to defend themselves.

there is plenty of criticisms of doctors currently, regarding their pay

Exactly this 🙌🙌

Yes - exactly.

My experience of non-teacher friends / relatives is that their reactions fall into roughly two camps when they realise I'm a teacher:

• "Oh, you're a teacher, you're so lucky only working 9am - 3pm and with all of those holidays as well! It must be such an easy job."
• "Oh, you're a teacher. Rather you than me trying to control those kids."

well i didnt say anything like that @CJFJ1

I don't think I said you did.

I was referring to my non-teaching acquaintances.

Teachers are paid for holidays, your pay is pro rata, like most other people that work. The problem with teacher bashing posts is that the teachers arguments are always the same, we don't get paid for holidays, things change all the time, we have to attend meetings, come and teach if you think it's so hard etc.

Teaching probably is hard, but so are many other jobs. For some reason teachers seem to think they have it the hardest. Many public facing jobs involve being abused or treated badly.

No nursing is way more exhausting.

Am sure teaching is exhausting but so are many other jobs. From experience I would say being a nurse is equally if not more exhausting. As well as the physical work, endless documentation and constant demands on your time, also have to deal with distressed, difficult, confused and sometimes violent patients (often due to them having delirium). If we make a mistake it can have serious consequences - even result in someone’s death. Added to this have to look after people who are dying and tend to them after they die- which can be emotionally distressing. Not only do we have to look after the patients, but also have to deal with families (some of whom who can be very demanding) and support families of dying patients. Breaks are frequently missed and frequently work over at the end of shift - can rarely take time back in lieu because of understaffing. We also work nights, weekends, evenings, bank holidays so often miss family social events. Arranging childcare can bec a nightmare unless you have a partner that works standard 9-5 hours or family that can step -up.

As for welders, who you keep bringing up.

I said on an earlier post that my partner is a steel worker. His work is physically hard, dirty and tiring. He works from 7am-3pm. When he finishes at 3, he doesn't give it a second thought until the following day. He's tired, yes but he said he'd never seen 'exhaustion' until he met me. If he didn't cook every evening, there would be days when I wouldn't eat because I'm so tired. He goes out a couple of evenings a week with friends who do similarly difficult manual jobs. I go to bed around 8.30 after falling asleep on the sofa. Some days, I can't string a sentence together by the time I get home. During term time, my life is working and sleeping. The 'holidays' just mean I get to wfh on my own schedule.

Through him, I know a lot of tradies/manual workers. One of our friends is a carpet fitter. He's in his 40s and his knees are shot. I believe him. I don't question it because I've never been a carpet fitter. One is a TIG welder (I think it is, it's the harder, bigger, heavier welding). So I have real life people and not my imagination to compare it to.

I've talked to several teachers who've left teaching. They've all said they wondered how they'd cope without the 'long holidays' and, without exception, all of them have said that they don't need them in the same way in their new (mainly) corportate/civil service roles. They've said they get tired, there are pressures, deadlines and stresses but they never feel they are running on empty or on their knees. Many took a paycut when leaving teaching. Some quite significantly so, but they also say it has been worth it for the benefits to their physical and mental health.

I can't comment because I'm still in teaching.

It depends on where there assigned, as many on wards, spend a lot of time, sitting down and chatting to other nurses at the ftont desk eating biscuits.
A&E nurse, ICU or HDU are extremely busy

This! Every single person on here trying to claim teaching isn't more exhausting than most other jobs... Well, believe what you like, but the fact remains that we are in a recruitment and retention crisis, and if your kids are in a state school they are almost definitely not being taught by subject specialists for all their subjects (whether you are aware of that or not). Your teacher bashing only exacerbates this issue, and it's your kids that will suffer as a result 👌

Its a fair question- we're paid for 1265 hours and (for practicality) this is divided into 12 payments. The 'not getting paid for holidays' is probably a bit of a chip on our shoulder because there's a bit of media/social media narrative that teachers are paid to be at home. You raise a good point with your question too- we have rules about when we are allowed to put our notice in or we are liable for paying back part of our salary, because of the 1265 rule.
The holiday/pay question is also important when people talk about moving INSET days into holidays or shortening the summer holiday, this would move contracted time into unpaid time so would have implications for pay.