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I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

1000 replies

RevolutionHere · 20/07/2025 20:37

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

OP posts:
SawPalmettoPrincess · 21/07/2025 08:22

In addition to my previous post, I wonder what the point of this thread is?

My mother used to work in a clothes shop and she’d come home shattered and her feet would be sore. My dad worked in a steel works and his job was very manual with long hours. Both complained as if their job was the hardest in the world. Isn’t that just what people do. Because most people don’t really love their job and most people are tired and sore after a days work. I never really took their moaning to ‘literally’ mean that they alone had the most difficult job in the world.

As I said before and having experience in other jobs before I went into education, teaching is a difficult job. The reward is the holidays.

Sometimes it feels as though the public and parents would like those holidays removed. Mainly for childcare related reasons and the additional stress and cost for working families. I get it.

But, if you removed the holidays, or even shortened them, teachers would need to be paid more, because only statutory holiday pay is factored into the salary, plus 195 days at school (5 being inset). That increase in working time would cost the country billions.

If you tried to shorten the holiday without pay, or shifted them about, to make the summer shorter, but Christmas longer for example (like they tried to do in Wales), then you’d see more teachers leave. Why would I want more time off in the dreary British winter? When I chose to teach, my decision was based on conditions as they are now. I can’t stop change if government decided they wanted to restructure the school year, but there would be no further incentive for me to teach and tolerate the stress.

If they played with the school year, that would be the end of my teaching career. Fortunately I’m only about 12 years off retirement, so I could either do cover supervision or try my hand at something else, with a lot less stress. I was planning on swapping to cover in the last 4 years of my teaching career anyway, meaning only 8 years left in the classroom as a full time teacher. It would take a few years for consultation and change to happen, meaning I exit the profession perhaps 5 to 6 years earlier than planned. But I definitely wouldn’t stay and work longer for less. I suspect a lot of (experienced) teachers would feel the same leaving the system in an even worse mess than we have now. Perhaps the government would panic and go to a 4 day week to try to spread out teachers more, or have to employ more teachers from abroad…and then parents would have something else to complain about.

I would never say my job teaching is harder than every other job. But I would say ‘piss off when it comes to whinging about my holidays’.

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 21/07/2025 08:23

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 07:47

i did not do any teacher bashing
until i was faced with the barrage of insults from those calling themselves teachers

The thing is, your post has clearly been interpreted as goady and teacher bashing. Not by one person, but by a significant number.

Can you not understand that posting something like this at this time of year is likely to cause teachers to react? Or maybe that was your plan all along.

FWIW I’m not a teacher (although I do train them so do understand the profession) I’m a university academic. That job is also bloody exhausting and contrary to popular belief- I’m looking at you dad and step mum - I don’t get the holidays off!
University staff are also subject to threads like this so I completely understand why teachers react they way do and why they feel personally attacked.

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:23

the point i was searching for was harder jobs which i feel there are but there are very few being mentioned, who would dare

OP posts:
nomas · 21/07/2025 08:24

Missedthis · 21/07/2025 08:21

You did. The OP was goady, and the pitchforks/placards comment was goady.

Own it.

That’s unfair. The OP ‘’s post is directly in response to something that is being discussed in the media. Which is what MN is for.

And OP only said the pitchforks comment when she was relentlessly attacked by people and told she must be unemployed.

CJFJ1 · 21/07/2025 08:24

Braygirlnow · 21/07/2025 08:18

So you arrived in school 2 hours before the pupils?...what did you do for 2 hours, I live next to a primary school and the staff carpark is empty till 8.30.

I can't speak for the poster you've quoted but I get into school 2 hours before the pupils arrive and I can tell you that I'm not sitting around wiggling my thumbs: getting my classroom(s) ready, photocopying resources for my lessons, dealing with parent / staff emails that may have come in overnight, completing other admin tasks, checking the day's cover rota and seeing whether you need to cover any lessons that day. I can't speak for the school you live next to but the belief that teachers are in school only when the kids are, between 9am to 3pm is, quite frankly, erroneous, certainly in all of the schools I've taught in, and I've taught in several now.

Missedthis · 21/07/2025 08:24

“Who would dare”

also goady

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:26

Missedthis · 21/07/2025 08:24

“Who would dare”

also goady

as above,
i have been attached on here and told by someone saying they are a hospital consultant that i must be unemployed - bit unnecessary

OP posts:
Hb7x3 · 21/07/2025 08:26

There are different types of exhaustion, it's not that hard to understand.

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:27

Hb7x3 · 21/07/2025 08:26

There are different types of exhaustion, it's not that hard to understand.

perhaps it is for me, who would have thought!

OP posts:
NeedToChangeName · 21/07/2025 08:27

My brother (teacher) leaves home at 7.15am, home at 4.45pm. Never works evenings, weekends or school holidays

Tired in last week of term, quickly recovers

He never claims it's hugely onerous

CJFJ1 · 21/07/2025 08:29

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:23

the point i was searching for was harder jobs which i feel there are but there are very few being mentioned, who would dare

But why? It's not a competition to find the planet's "hardest job", is it? Teaching is a tough job - and that is the experience of many teachers, including myself. Anyone who believes it's a walk in the park needs to try it themselves, rather than negating how challenging and stressful it can be.

Apart from this person on the radio that you have listened to, none of the teachers who have posted on here (including me) are claiming it's the "hardest job" of all. We all realise that there are jobs out there that are challenging and stressful.

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:29

a friend is an english language teacher for foreign students, no 6 weeks summer holidays, zero hour contract, plenty of lesson planning and difficult students. no parents to contend with though.

OP posts:
Missedthis · 21/07/2025 08:30

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:26

as above,
i have been attached on here and told by someone saying they are a hospital consultant that i must be unemployed - bit unnecessary

I mean…

As we’re discussing the relative stress and tiredness making qualities of jobs, you could say what your job is. But you won’t, which led some to think you may not have one. Maybe you haven’t. Or maybe you’re a spy, hence the mystery.

Hobbitfeet32 · 21/07/2025 08:30

Being a doctor I would say is more exhausting than teaching. Very long days, lots of working outside of hours. Less holidays than teachers and life saving/changing decisions being made throughout the day. Plus you get the abuse, complaints and have to also attend all the safeguarding and child protection type meetings. I’m not a doctor but am a senior clinician/manager in the nhs and would say from my observations of teacher friends that my job must be at least equally exhausting. The difference is I hear how exhausting their job is more than I share. Despite the long hours I also observe that my teacher friends and family do also seem to have a lot of free time and spend lots of time abroad.

FootyMumOf3 · 21/07/2025 08:31

I work in a secondary school (SEN admin) and I’m absolutely done by July. Hardest job I’ve ever had but I can tolerate it because of the holidays… no way I could sustain this level of stress/frazzlement for 25 days holiday a year and I don’t have to stand and deliver lessons to teenagers who for the most part want to anywhere else except listening to you and then deal with the parents who just back darling Fred regardless of the fact they’ve called you a c u next Tuesday or disrupted an entire lesson for those who want to learn. I understand why there’s a shortage I couldn’t do it!
DH has a manual job and we are both different kinds of shattered when we get home. Is mine worse than his no… it’s different and you can’t compare. I do know that he sleeps like a log seconds after his head hits the pillow and I usually spend ages thinking about what I’ve got to get done/didn’t get chance to do because for every one job I tick off my list I get five others to add to it 🤣🤣

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 21/07/2025 08:31

Braygirlnow · 21/07/2025 08:18

So you arrived in school 2 hours before the pupils?...what did you do for 2 hours, I live next to a primary school and the staff carpark is empty till 8.30.

Kids come through the door at 8:40 at my school. Some have special arrangements to come earlier, and an adult must be with them at all times.

But as for the 2 hours… I can take a wild guess. Finish anything from the previous day , prep for the new day, meetings, fill in forms/assessments for SEN children , answer /read the dozens of email that came through overnight, organise/plan/book/risk assessment trips /workshops/theme days, fix/change displays, plenty of other things.

Deathraystare · 21/07/2025 08:32

JMSA · 20/07/2025 20:40

I hear this a lot but by the same token, not many would want to do my job (secondary education)!

I certainly would not!

EvilEdna44 · 21/07/2025 08:32

Braygirlnow · 21/07/2025 08:18

So you arrived in school 2 hours before the pupils?...what did you do for 2 hours, I live next to a primary school and the staff carpark is empty till 8.30.

I start at 7.30am.
I print/photocopy resources, open up the 6-10 powerpoints I will use for my lessons, scan through them quickly to remind me what’s coming up and check for any errors/issues.
I may have admin or emails to deal with left over from the previous day.
At 8.20am there is a staff briefing, 3 days a week, in the staff room.
Then students arrive from 8.35am and it’s all go until 3.15pm when they leave.
I then have to sort through the carnage on my desk, call home about any behaviour issues, and log everything on the pastoral system.
Deal with more emails/admin/queries that have come in through the day.
Start to think about planning for the lessons for the following day.
If I am lucky I finish around 5.30pm, but that’s just the days when there are no after school meetings to attend first before starting all of the above, or else it goes on later.
If I have any marking to do, I do that in the evenings at home, often until 9 or 10 pm. Or at weekends. During mock exams I can lose entire weekends to marking.

StillAGoth · 21/07/2025 08:32

I'm really tired of all the criticism against teachers, tbh.

I've been teaching for 20 years. Prior to that I worked in various office jobs.

I don't assume that I know what the environment, workload or conditions are like in other jobs, professions, work environments. I don't argue with people when they've had a tough day at work. I don't dismiss or minimise their experiences.

But people do that with teachers all the time.

The only reason teachers need to defend themselves is the stupid beliefs demonstrated on threads like these.

Our core hours at my school are 8.30am - 3.45pm. Apart from one day a week when they are 8.30am - 5pm. But if we were only in school or only worked during those hours we wouldn't he able to do our job.

We are in lessons for 4 and a half hours a day so 22 and a half hours a week. Each lesson needs to be planned, PowerPoints need to be created for the teaching, resources need to be designed, printed and photocopied or sourced in some other way. This takes around 60 mins per lesson depending on the subject and the resources required (it can take longer). That's around another 40+ hours work on top of the teaching. If you work in a 2 form entry school, this is halved but, if you teach in a 1 form entry school, you have to do it all.

Sometimes, you can use previous years work but, tbh, it takes just as long because you have to adapt it to account for curriculum or pedagogical changes and just for the children in your class.

On top of that, you have to find a way of making content that isn't accessible to some children accessible to them and provide appropriate work for them. No one minds doing that obviously but it isn't as simple as creating an 'easier' resource (it must be linked to their targets - so can be different resources for different children) and isn't often easy to achieve. That takes time.

I spend the first hour or so after work every day updating CPOMS with behaviour incidents or safeguarding concerns.

We have termly reviews for SEND children. Updating systems, preparing paperwork and the meetings for each of these takes around 3-4 hours and has to be up-to-date so must be completed in the week of the meetings with parents. I'm lucky because, this year, I only had 2 children who required reviews but they weren't the only children who have SEND. Just the only ones who needed reviews. My colleague had 9 in her class. That was 27-36 hours of extra work over 2 weeks on that alone.

In each lesson, we are told to 'live mark' because its more effective for children and is intended to cut down on marking time but we also have to have a teacher focus group of children and work with them and evidence progress. You can't live mark with the whole class and have a teacher focus group at the same time. We are supposed to update the online tracker during the lesson too for the most accurate assessment for learning.

So I'm supposed to sit with my focus group, discuss and set work for them, leave them to work independently for 5 mins while I live mark with other children and update the online tracker as I go. But you get back and find out your focus group haven't done anything without you there, or have gone off on a complete tangent. Meanwhile, you've managed to live mark one book and the ipad wouldn't connect to the Internet so no tracker update. You address the misconception in the focus group, they all understand - phew - so you attempt to live mark another book. The ipad still won't connect to the Internet. You discover that the child whose work you are live marking hasn't understood so you help them. That's two books live marked and a focus group who really needed you there the whole time at the same time (this model is the one our school wants us to follow)

You don't even attempt to live mark the work of the children who are secure, greater depth, or could be pushed to greater depth, because you at least know that those children will get the basics right but you also know they could be challenged and you need to get at certain % of your children to greater depth (regardless of the cohort) and you know this will be questioned in your performance review meetings or pupil progress meetings and you feel you're letting those children down.

But it's OK, because all the children are at least sitting at their tables, engaged and trying their best. Except they're not because someone is writing racist comments on their whiteboard about another child, or yanking the blind cord until it breaks, or hitting someone etc. One child is sensory seeking and rolling all over the table and shouting out which is upsetting the sensory avoidant child who is now sitting under the table pinching other children.

So you leave your focus group and abandon the live marking to deal with it.

And then the Head or Deputy Head pops in and asks you why you're not live marking or with your focus group. You explain so they ask why the sensory seeking child still doesn't have their own work station and you must provide it except that, no, there are no spare tables in the school to enable you to provide this and there isn't the funding to provide one but they'll look into it (they dont because it's May and theyve been saying that since September) and, even if there was, your classroom isn't big enough because you have to have the tables set out a certain way as a school non negotiable.

All the time, you're aware that you have more curriculum to cover than there are hours in the week and you know book monitoring is coming up and some of the children haven't underlined their date and learning objective with a ruler and you'll be picked up on that. A couple of the children haven't even finished writing their date and LO.

Oh and the reason the HT/DHT popped in in because they were doing an unannounced 'Learning Walk'. You don't know they're coming and you don't know what the focus is.

It's OK because today it's inclusion and you're following all the advice given by the Ed Psych and the lovely woman from Pupil Support Services who observed a couple of the children last week. Great. Pat on the back for you. But hold on, the following week, the focus is behaviour and expectations and now all those reasonable adjustments you've put in place are a problem and a sign that you have low expectations of behaviour and outcomes. And so you get called into a meeting to discuss professional standards.

It's OK, though, because it's morning break now. You can go for a wee.

Oh but then the behaviour lead bumps into you in the corridor and wants to spend the whole 15 mins discussing the behaviour of one of the children in your class who is on an IBP. But it's OK, you might still get to the loo before the bell goes. But just as you're having a wee or changing your tampon, you hear the bell go. You finish up as quickly as you can and get outside to find the children already lined up.

This is unacceptable, so you are reminded again of professional standards, expectations and setting an example to the children. All of which, you're supremely aware of at all times but you desperately needed a wee and you could tell your tampon had leaked.

So you bring your class in for the second lesson of the day and it starts all over again.

And that's why I'm exhausted when I get home at the end of the day.

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 21/07/2025 08:32

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:29

a friend is an english language teacher for foreign students, no 6 weeks summer holidays, zero hour contract, plenty of lesson planning and difficult students. no parents to contend with though.

And no statutory assessments, national curriculum, Mandatory training, safeguarding etc.

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 21/07/2025 08:33

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:23

the point i was searching for was harder jobs which i feel there are but there are very few being mentioned, who would dare

Harder and exhausting are two different things ….

Hb7x3 · 21/07/2025 08:33

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:27

perhaps it is for me, who would have thought!

Go and do some research on it

You've mentioned a welder, that job would be psychically exhausting, but not necessarily emotionally or mentally.

Different kinds of exhaustion have different affects on people

RevolutionHere · 21/07/2025 08:33

@StillAGoth
i dont think there is any criticism of teachers on this thread

OP posts:
spoonbillstretford · 21/07/2025 08:34

I couldn't really vote either way, it's horses for courses with most jobs.

Having helped out with reading and bits and bobs at school and seen how full on small children or teenagers can be, even without thinking about the paperwork and pressure I would personally find it very difficult. Plus the salary wouldn't be enough to meet our regular bills and outgoings as the main earner so I'd find that very difficult.

I also personally politically and morally couldn't be a teacher in the type of academy secondary school that DD2 went to as I think that type of school is failing children left right and centre, often through no fault of individual teachers, though I personally couldn't stand by and be a party to the academy school system.

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 21/07/2025 08:34

Hobbitfeet32 · 21/07/2025 08:30

Being a doctor I would say is more exhausting than teaching. Very long days, lots of working outside of hours. Less holidays than teachers and life saving/changing decisions being made throughout the day. Plus you get the abuse, complaints and have to also attend all the safeguarding and child protection type meetings. I’m not a doctor but am a senior clinician/manager in the nhs and would say from my observations of teacher friends that my job must be at least equally exhausting. The difference is I hear how exhausting their job is more than I share. Despite the long hours I also observe that my teacher friends and family do also seem to have a lot of free time and spend lots of time abroad.

Have you heard many teachers saying teaching is more exhausting than being a doctor? “I’m so fucking knackered mate…” doesn’t mean no one else isn’t equally as or even more knackered.

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