I am not sure I agree that Teachers have absolutely exhausting jobs - much more so than most jobs - as said by man on r4 this morning

[RevolutionHere]

i am not sure what my dh, former welder would make of this statement

this is an argument regarding long summer holidays,

So are lots of other jobs.

My high school English teacher quit due to stress and actually became a welder.

As far as I know he's still welding 20 years later so I presume it's a happier life. For him at least.

er yes he did

Don't forget, if there is less holiday, teachers will have to be paid more. Because they're paid for their amount of teaching hours, albeit spread over 12 months. So if the teaching hours increase, pay will have to increase to match the work increase.

I can't see a pay increase happening. Which will mean even less teachers. And we're already in a shortage situation (despite it supposedly being such an aspirational job!).

It's a very fair point, I have never seen a profession that complains so bitterly about their working conditions as teachers do. They complain a LOT.

But part of it is that a lot of people have negative things to say about them, it is unfortunate because people are nuts when it comes to their own children, and I know I was too.

ALL loving parents are unreasonable. All of them. When it comes to their own kids, some are really batshit bonkers, and some just a bit one sided but yes ALL of them, and if you think you are not one of them, you're probably the one everybody talks about 😅

What that means though is that teachers can never win and there is a lot of negativity around them, even if they are basically good at their job. And unlike a welder, there's no simple straightforward criteria to judge them from, it's all feelings based. One parent loves the teacher because Jenny is happy and flourishing, one hates the very same teacher because she feels Johnny doesn't get enough "whatever".

And in the same vein, what works for Jenny might not work at all for Johnny, so they have to be really flexible in their approach. These days they are allowed no tools of discipline except "please stop that, he doesn't like it". Even if a child is smashing up the classroom, the whole class is moved instead of the child who is being violent. And parents basically live in the school these days, even 20 years ago there was a clear line between teachers and parents, unfortunately all this "volunteering" in the school has given parents the idea that they have the right to interfere at all times.

But by the same token, teachers are also often massively overstepping and really do think they have the right to lecture kids on lifestyle choices, sexuality and have embraced the silly "Bring your whole self to work" theory to an alarming degree.

I think it's a combination of a lot of things. It is a stressful job emotionally, some of that is the teachers' doing some of it is pretty ridiculous expectations that they should be nurses, counsellors, perfect saints AND teachers all in one bundle.

It is not, generally, a stressful job physically though and the paid months off every year certainly helps.

We need a completely different education system from the ground up and that's unlikely to happen. If my kids were young again now, I'd home school them or go to a tiny rural town with a small classroom and a community which generally agreed on discipline and teaching methods.

So you're right and wrong, it is NOT physically exhausting, but it can be emotionally exhaustsing for all sorts of different reasons.

bollocks you are
i am too

When he worked evenings and weekends, was he paid for that?

fgs how can you tell that?

It's such an English thing to be like "people should just accept horrible standards and pay and be grateful for it"

Where I live (in Aus), public sector teachers starting salary is well above minimum wage ($85K AUD/ £41k) and continues to rise fairly. They get proper holidays- very little time in holidays is spent working. The first few years is a huge slog as they develop their teaching resources and after that there is less out of hours workload.

Why would you not want the people fronting up your kids' classroom to feel rested, motivated, and respected?

Welders, builders and steel workers don’t have to mark into the early hours of the morning.

They don’t have to deal with child protection matters either like some teachers have to routinely. Not saying there aren’t other things that are difficult in these jobs before anyone says so.

Reduce the minimum wage.

Crap pay.

I am full of admiration for teachers .I could not do the job ,some of my friends are teachers and it takes dedication, a lot of their time is unpaid overtime. I really hope they have a great holiday and that they return refreshed. I could not be as dedicated as a teacher .My friends tell me about some of the children ,the parents ,managers and I would imagine a lot of people would not be able to put up with teaching for a week. They deserve a good holiday away from all they put up with.

All I can say is try teaching first. Then comment

Well, why don't you test that theory then? Teachers are leaving in droves and we're in a huge recruitment and retention crisis. If it's not more exhausting than most other jobs, why not become a teacher and show us how it's done? 👌

It's a demanding and and exhausting job without doubt. So are many others.

My mum wrangled 30 6-yr-olds every school day for 25 years.
She didn’t beat us, she didn’t have a drinking problem, she didn’t curse excessively.
I don’t know how she did it.

Sweet Jesus...another teacher bashing one.
Read the mumnets threads on teenagers/ problems/ anxiety/ behaviour/ phone addiction / rudeness
Multiply this by 25 in a classroom (secondary), try to teach them and please come back to me. Unless you have discipline forget it

I think we need to treat teachers like all other professionals. They need proper access to leave the same as other professionals and support and development as well. I personally think that the long holidays do more harm than good and society can reorganise over the next few years to remove school holidays and extend the learning days out over the years.

The problem with this attitude, is that you someone could easily say something like "you probably wouldn't last working night shifts on a ward with sick and dying kids". Its pointless because you don't know how anyone would react.

All jobs working with people/children are exhausting, and most are underpaid.

Teachers are telling us that they work so hard, that they should be entitled to 3 months a year off, when everyone else gets 1 month of leave.

Absolutely agree with this.

It's so important to acknowledge that while being a teacher is incredibly demanding, it's not the only role that pushes people to their limits—mentally, physically, and emotionally. Jobs like paramedics and prison officers are perfect examples—dangerous, underpaid, and constantly under pressure, yet they rarely get the recognition or support they deserve.

There are countless unsung heroes doing essential work, yet they often remain unnoticed and underappreciated.

The same applies to retail workers, carers, cleaners, farmers, firefighters, police, and countless other roles that are exhausting in their own ways. It’s not about dismissing anyone’s struggle but understanding that stress and burnout can come from all directions. Everyone deserves empathy and support, regardless of what their “job” is.

When it comes to salary discussions, teachers tend to earn significantly more than professions like paramedics, firefighters, and carers, for example.

Right... imagine working on a prison ward where those kids are now grown adult men with exactly the same issues.

Its a pointless argument. Listen to what people are saying.

My response would be " "I don't make the rules. The long holidays are a perk, and are not a secret" If that is important to you become a teacher"

So really all you want is a game of
“my job is harder than your job.”

But how do you know if you've never done it? I did it for 3 years but part time. I wouldn't do it full time and I'm not teaching anymore. It's very emotionally exhausting. And relentless. Thr holidays don't make up for that.