Say it with me...

[TesChique]

School. Is. Not. There. To. Be. Free. Childcare.

All this talk of bringing the school summer holidays down to four weeks is boiling me as not one argument is child education centred. Instead its all focussed on making parents lives easier

It is six weeks for more complex reasons than "oh its from when we had farms and we dont have farms now lol oh also itd help me"

@the7Vabo the expensse is crazy. And childcare for primary school children is through the roof.

If humans had any sense we’d look at something like AI and say: Here’s an invention that will make everyone more productive. We will therefore need to work fewer hours to get the same results. Brilliant, let’s give everyone who’s working an extra 4-6 weeks holidays (on the same pay, as their AI-leveraged output remains the same). Now families can spend lots of quality time together. No need for childcare stress in summer holidays.

Instead we’re using AI to make people redundant, work the remaining people even harder, stress parents and children, all so that some Jeff Bezos can hold his next wedding on the moon or whatever.

Mind you, maybe more education is needed…

And most professions! Project Management for one, Construction etc

Keep the holidays as they are but use the school buildings and school staff paid volunteers (and/or hire students home for the summer) to provide affordable holiday childcare.

As a teacher of 30 years standing, the six week summer break is needed by the vast vast majority of children and staff. Many of the reasons have already been raised but one which I haven’t seen yet is this: climate change and inadequate buildings mean that there is often almost no real learning in July as it stands, let alone extending the term. My classroom was over 30 degrees for most days in the last few weeks of this term, making it extremely uncomfortable despite all doors/windows opened as much as possible and an industrial fan, plus the teens allowed to wear PE kit.

If the 2 weeks were put somewhere else during the school year then perhaps children and teachers would not have as much burn out as there would be less time to the next holiday to recharge.

But also the “school isn’t childcare” of course it is! Are you expected to supervise or pay someone else to supervise your child during school hours? No? That’s because the “care” is being done by school staff. You don’t even need to collect them at lunchtime /pay someone to collect them at lunchtime, the school covers that non-teaching hours supervision and care. The school does childcare during the school hours.

It’s perfectly reasonable to question if the teaching hours we provide are split in the best way for modern society. This might mean moving /changing how exams are conducted and marked to make it fit without a long summer break.

I don’t understand how this is better than the UK tbh.

In England we have 3 terms, with a 2 week break at the end of the autumn and spring terms, and 6 weeks over the summer.

So, that’s sounding quite similar.

Except we also have a week long half term break midway through each term.

So, children only have to do a max of 6 weeks in school at any one time before having a week off.

I’m not really seeing how going to school for 10weeks solid without a break is a better system.

What happens if the school needs construction work? That couldn’t happen with children or staff in? Do you just cross your fingers and hope the ceilings stay up or the heating lasts another winter?

I do agree, but this view can also come from the school.

One of the points made by the school during the consultation period about extending the Oct 1/2 term from 1 to 2 weeks, was that "parents will be able to take advantage of cheaper holidays".

I found that patronising and nothing to do with my child's education.

In these circumstances other arrangements can be made. But it's not going to be a regular occurrence, now is it?

The six weeks holiday would be absolutely fine if there was affordable childcare in place. That's what happens in European countries with longer summer holidays - there is state subsidised childcare. Or in some countries there is an expectation that everyone is on holiday in July/August (I work with Norwegians who were astounded I expected decisions to be made in July). The UK is, as ever, contorting itself under a desperate desire to keep the 'old days' of a long, hot summer running through fields, vs the reality that most parents work full time and need childcare. And we need parents to work to pay taxes to support public services - even more so since we left the EU.

The solution is more tax money. But people don't want to pay more taxes.

No, if certain schools need maintenance work, one would hopefully use a brain cell or two and arrange holiday camps at other schools in the vicinity.

Since less holiday provision is required than term-time provision (because not all children will need holiday childcare for the duration of the holiday), clubs providers could organise school holiday camps centrally in conjunction with local authorities according to projected demand in their area.

The majority of holiday camps that my DC attends are already held on school premises, but not I hope in schools where the ceilings are at risk of falling down.

And then we have conversations about women being absent at a senior level in lots of professions.

The school summer holidays were designed around the harvest. They were not designed because of the educational benefits, or because teachers need a mental health break.

Society has moved on and so should the education system.

Many adults are exhausted from the full time work plus commute. Between school and childcare many children are the exact same. They have such little time to be allowed go at their own pace. Two working parents is doing many children a great disservice at times.
School isn’t childcare the way a childcare service is. Schools aren’t as nurturing and there are way too many other children and demands.

What are the reasons?

Like it or not, the reality is that for many many families, childcare has become an essential byproduct of the education system. Many families do not have the luxury of being able to survive on a one income family whilst the other parent stays home to cover 13 weeks of school holidays. For many children the 6/7 week break from school isn’t a happy relaxed break, it’s endless hours of screen time and complete loss of any routine/predictability whilst parents desperately try to fit 13 weeks of childcare into 5 weeks of annual leave. Not everyone is privileged enough to have loving engaged family members, or to afford dance/football/activity camps. I think it’s time we thought more creatively about the existing system.

It's not childcare. It is a system for passing on the culture and teaching the best that has been said and thought. Or it should be. Be that as it may, it is not childcare. I stayed at home till my elder child was nearly 10, then got a job teaching (bad choice as it turned out). I never treated my child's school as childminders and dealt with the before and after school bit with a very good childminder. She also looked after my younger child whilst I was at university doing an MA before I took a teaching job. That's childcare. I think we should go with some continental systems that give children a 10 week summer break, the first and last weeks of which are used by teachers for marking and preparation done in school.

As i said upthread, within any given LA a rota could be used for different sites so kids might not go to their own campus but work can be done where needed with facilities used elsewhere.

There is insurance on the grounds
who will be responsible?
you might be surprised how often older buildings that house children need maintenance - heads work out budgets and do work each summer accordingly

plus some parents are knobs and if their child is still attending school grounds they will treat the staff like they treat the teachers.

if it was easy, viable and made the school money by hiring out the premises I am sure it would happen - it probably does in some places

our youngster’s school sends out details for summer camps - good marketing - if you need somewhere for your child to be during school hours during the holidays there are options

also what about the kids, spending all school year and all summer in school, would you have liked that? I would’ve hated it

parents just need to take into account the summer holidays when they have children - that solves all of this - having a child and then expecting society, schools, employers to change around you is crazy

if you can find staff to man it

there are summer camps use them

B and C do keep changing, but not with anywhere enough sufficiency. Working structure has also had adaptations in the form of increased WFH and flexi hours. It’s still not enough. The school structure never seems to change. If each element adapted just enough, then working parents might not feel as though they were absolutely drowning.

There is subsidisation for wraparound care and holiday care. It’s still not enough.

The other issue is that it’s really, really difficult to simply pack kids off to wraparound care and clubs full time. They are often extremely tired from school, SEN can be exacerbated, poor behaviour exacerbated, sleep impacted, additional school work can’t be adequately supported. Ultimately the majority of kids just want to be at home and able to relax and free play with their parents in their own environment.

It’s almost an impossible problem, because the the only true answer is to lower the cost of living to the extent where one income or two part time incomes was enough to comfortably support a family AND have that not disproportionately impact women so much.

Yes, I agree. We need to structure work around women's biology rather than men's and factor in that if most adults with children are working full-time then full time work has to enable looking after children in a constructive manner during school holidays, childcare everyone can have - and not for profit but for education and joy. Or we could go back to not being a globalised consumerist society, save the planet and clear up pollution and have one parent (either sex) at home for the kids, whilst still earning NI towards pensions etc. Or we could have some mix of the two. The system we have now is just broken.

I get that for some families it’s necessary, but from the child’s point of view far from ideal.
Imagine you have a long holiday coming up. But instead of relaxing at home with your family, you have to be up at 7:00 sharp, same as a work day and head off to your workplace for another 9-5 day with your colleagues. The boss isn't there, there’s no work to do, you can watch a film or whatever you fancy, but don’t try and tell me you wouldn’t much rather be at home.

Two working parents is what keeps a roof over their head and food on the table. You sound as though you disapprove of (let's face it) women, who have abandoned their traditional role out of a lack of care.

Yes the evidence is that children in more deprived families (less access to books, educational activities etc.) lose most ground academically compared to their peers in the long school holidays.