Say it with me...

[TesChique]

School. Is. Not. There. To. Be. Free. Childcare.

All this talk of bringing the school summer holidays down to four weeks is boiling me as not one argument is child education centred. Instead its all focussed on making parents lives easier

It is six weeks for more complex reasons than "oh its from when we had farms and we dont have farms now lol oh also itd help me"

Which is why I said educationally deprived. It doesn't matter why they're deprived, the point is they are.

But many kids go to the park (when younger) play with others, or hang out in bedrooms DJing, reading and museums are all well and good but just hanging out, flirting, banter, getting a bus to shopping centre, riding a bike, these are all part of childhood as well

lots of cultural creativity comes from “not museums”

It is not just childcare but it is also childcare.

Yet again, I ask, who is responsible for the child during schools hours. You haven't answered this.

Parents cannot solve their childcare issues independent of school considerations. Because children are mandated to be in school for a certain number of hours and childcare is not required in those hours (because school does it).

So we need to look at the gap between school and parents working hours and help them solve those problems as other counties manage to do.

Calling it childcare gives an expectation that it should be available when parents want it.

A child had a bang on the head and their parent, when called to collect them said “he’s your problem until 3.10pm”. Just one example

This is why teachers, schools need a break.

And yes it’s very depressing that some parents think of their potentially concussed child as a problem.

Some parents are dreadful they are, teachers need a break from parents as well as the job and pupils.

Children are in the care of the school during school hours of course. But I’m talking about how we ‘think’ about school.
If you ‘think’ it’s for childcare, you get yourself into a ridiculous mindset where the needs of the parents trump those of the child and its education.
It’s not childcare. Childcare is a useful side effect of children going to school, not its purpose.

The trouble is, OP, it is childcare, because people get fined if they don’t send their children to school in term time. They aren’t free to make their own arrangements, as they used to be.

Whatever changes are made need to be consistent across different authorities, and need to ensure that down time, for both pupils and teachers, which is as important as learning/teaching time, isn’t sacrificed.

I'm seeing quite a few posts claiming that shorter summer holidays would benefit children with SEND, as though all SEND children have the same needs. Some children with SEND struggle with the loss of routine and structure during the long summer break but not all. My Autistic DC are absolutely burnt out by the time we get to the summer holidays. The first week of the holidays is always a write off as they are too exhausted to do much. The last week of the holidays is also a write off as they're anxious about going back so really we only get 4 weeks . They need the summer break to properly un-mask, and actually enjoy themselves without the pressure of school.

I don't think there is any solution that will work for everyone and any proposed changes to the holidays will create more of a problem for some families even if they benefit others.

You're making it an emotional point when it's just a practical one. Who is responsible for the child's care in that time? School.

Which has important implications for parents, because they cannot sort additional childcare without working around school requirements.

A child had a bang on the head and their parent, when called to collect them said “he’s your problem until 3.10pm”. Just one example

That's very heartless, but I'm not sure what the relevance is. They could say the same of daycare or after school care too. It wouldn't be alright there either.

But as I said there have been actual studies that have measured the drop in ability in deprived families after the long school holidays. It's not just my opinion.

But they don’t get a month of after that

I disagree, both on assumptions about the privately educated enrichment and on the assumption that a museum visit is more valuable than kicking about by the river with friends. There is huge evidence on the value of unstructured time for the development of executive functions, of boredom for the honing of ingenuity and discovery of special interests. You don’t need money to benefit from time away from school.

Do you have any links for these actual studies?

Wrong wrong wrong.

Fining people doesn't make it childcare.

My daughter has long summer holidays and it’s filled with all sorts of summer clubs and camos like most of Europe.

I don't have time to look for good links atm (google brings up lots of hits), but I believe summer learning loss is a recognised issue, and is compounded in those from deprived backgrounds. It makes sense.

The cost of school holidays for children from low income families - Hilary Stewart, Nick Watson, Mhairi Campbell, 2018

SHP0003 - Evidence on School holiday poverty

Alexander: Lasting consequences of the summer learning gap - Google Scholar

I don't disagree with the value of unstructured time. However this doesn't counteract the effects of long summer holidays.

The teenagers where I live clearly need less unstructured time. Endless hours to hang out isn’t a good thing.

My son has two months off (Irish primary school). Camps nearly every week. He does a variety of stuff and he enjoys it.

But it’s very difficult to manage. No camp where I live provides wraparound care. The longest camp hours wise locally is 10-3.

It’s also difficult for me to log off after a long day of work and have to get him to engage in reading etc when he is out of routine, tired & distracted.

Camps can also be very expansive.

Society changes all the time. Just look at any parliamentary debate on a given day, it’s often about what needs to be changed.

Some level of summer school hours with actual learning is needed.

Im sure I would feel I needed 6 weeks off if I was used to it. But lots of jobs are hard, lots of people work hard. Putting working parents under so much strain in the summer so that teachers can enjoy much more extensive time off than other jobs isn’t right. I’ve less of an issue with 6 weeks than the Irish 3 months which is insane.

No matter what you do it won’t suit everyone. So sometimes you have to cut your cloth to suit you measurements.
Its very natural for children to learn by doing rather then sitting down all day listening to a teacher. For children who don’t have this maybe a special provision can be put in place for them to allow them to learn form new experiences and more hands on experiences rather then the traditional classroom experiences.

How does that work with the GCSE exams? Or are you not in the UK?

Buy who actually does that now? How many primary age kids do you know that live in an area deemed safe enough to go off with mates to a wood or a river?

That’s not the responsibility of the state. The teenagers around me largely get summer jobs.

some parents want their kids looked after for 48 weeks of the year by the state somehow and some parents don’t

some parents keep up or fill in their child’s education during holiday time and some don’t

all anyone can do is deal with things as they are right now - write to your MP, it might help

A 13 year can’t get a summer job.

Teenagers would be better off occupied for the summer. A well functioning society including giving teenagers structure is the responsibility of the State.