Say it with me...

[TesChique]

School. Is. Not. There. To. Be. Free. Childcare.

All this talk of bringing the school summer holidays down to four weeks is boiling me as not one argument is child education centred. Instead its all focussed on making parents lives easier

It is six weeks for more complex reasons than "oh its from when we had farms and we dont have farms now lol oh also itd help me"

Sorry 1:10pm

Why can't they read a book, do some art, play with Lego, do some puzzles etc why do they need to be watching more TV than they should be? Why is the solution childcare or screen?

It is already a scramble to book leave in the school summer holidays and this will
make it worse as many areas of work can only manage with a few ( or even one) being on leave at a time. Holiday firms will quickly capitalise on any lengthening of other holidays and so costs will still be ridiculous. I can see a shorter holiday may benefit a few - but it would be tough on secondary schools who will still have results days etc and may feel like they’ve had no break at all.

I am not saying that you do not deserve 4 weeks. And I acknowledge that you (and many other teachers) work hard, have an exhaustive job and deserve to be acknowledged.

But you saying that summer is already only 4 weeks for me? "Only 4 weeks"? That does make me wonder whether you might lack perspective.

The vast majority of working adults wouldn't describe 4 (mostly) uninterrupted weeks as "only 4 weeks".

Obviously I can’t take holidays in term time. Parents of school-aged children can't either.

I don’t get the whole of Easter either as I usually have to do a day or so at the beginning and end. that doesn't seem unusual to me.

Plus I still need to check emails at least every other day. I also check - and answer - my E-Mails when I'm on holiday. It's perfectly normal for me and my colleagues.

If you move holidays around there might be less out of school childcare.

If you have a longer summer break clubs can employ university students home looking for cash, if you break up the holidays who is going to run a business like that? Who could?

I don’t think the summer holidays are going to change for many many valid reasons so parents need to work it out for what is best for their child(ren) during that time. It’s part of being a parent, it’s not a surprise, it happens every year, you decided to have child, as did we, we took summer holidays into account before we got pregnant, 18 years ago, nothing has changed since then.

We are nearly at the end and can’t wait until we can work through August and take time off outside the school holiday months after 15 years of doing it. And that is part of the argument - you can’t rearrange a society around the 8 years a parent needs (per child) regarding summer holidays.

You had that child, if they need childcare, activities, down time, routine, extra learning, just time off, whatever your child needs, it’s up to you as a parent, who brought your child into the world, to accommodate that and be their parent for a bit (I obviously include both parents in this).

If it changes it changes, if it doesn’t it doesn’t.
We just have to get on with it.

As usual with these threads, people feel the need to slam teachers for their holidays. Despite getting a 6 week summer holiday and more weeks off in the year than most other professions, hoards of teachers leave the profession after only a short time.
Does that not tell people something? If the holidays made it all worth it, wouldn’t people stick at the job for longer? The reality is that even that amount of holidays does not make up for the workload and stress during term time (plus, you do actually end up working in your holidays)

I used to get 14 weeks off a year as a teacher. I left and now take 1 week off a year and work 5-6 days. I’m far happier now.
Even 14 weeks off a year could not tempt me back into the classroom.

Schools are places of education. Not a babysitting service.

Every colleague I've ever worked with in 30 years would be arriving at school from ,7.40/8 am if not earlier and only leave before 4 if they were rushing off to childcare. They'd then need to prep or mark for an hour or two at home and usually for a minimum of 3/4 hrs at the weekend.

Most working people do not work during their paid annual leave as another pp suggested and 8 of the 13 weeks is unpaid for teachers so the fact that they already do use a fair chunk for work I think is enough.

What I have learned from these 2 threads is people who have been teachers have very little understanding of the amount of work other professionals do, especially those in essential jobs in the public sector.

The large leave allowance is a perk... a poison one because you lose freedom of time, but its still a perk of the job, you are not entitled to it. Enjoy it, there is no need to justify it by saying you deserve it, you don't make the rules and its not a secret or anything.

Having said that the way society has changed even in the last 20 years shows that there does need to be a change in how education is delivered. Now most parents both work full time, we just have to have a think about on how we can deliver education and childcare.

I don't disagree with you. But I do think teaching is particularly challenging, and I have worked in other sectors. I think it's impossible to understand the stress unless you've actually done it.

We are outside of the UK. Reading this thread is crazy for me- my kids have two terms, no half term breaks. One 3 month holiday, one 5 week holiday and some odd public holidays in between.

What does exist is a fairly (not fully sadly) in school summer school, drop off at 7am and pick up at 4pm (school hours 7.30- 3pm + 1 hr of extra curriculars/ supervised homework).Its pretty manageable as a single FT office worker with family 10,000km away.
School is long, serious (primary is far more demanding than the UK system) and tiring but then my kids get a proper, a really proper break.
My eldest has just moved into the British system and its stop, start, stop start in comparision. Thankfully, she is older and doesn't need childcare.

Many places already have 4 weeks for summer and an additional week in October.

Not. All. Schools. Have. The. Same. Term. Dates.

It’s very nice for you that your child is high functioning enough to understand and adapt to the change. This is not the case for most parents with children with profound SEND. If the summer holidays works for you then that’s lovely for you, but the majority of families at my child’s specialist setting and the majority of my patients and their families find the 6 weeks extremely difficult.

I really don’t understand how you being able to get a slightly cheaper holiday should factor into this. Your need for a cheap holiday does not counter out low income families struggling with childcare or disabled children struggling with regulation.

There are two separate issues here and no real reason why they need to be mixed up.

Children need to be educated.

Parents need childcare.

The childcare part is the part that is presently very inefficient and costly. In a world where many people are voting with their feet and deciding not to have children at all, it makes sense to support families a lot better than we do.

There is no reason why teachers should be expected to do childcare, but on the other hand school infrastructure could be used to deliver low-cost quality childcare (after-school and holidays) much more effectively than it presently is. In a world where schools are soon going to be competing for pupils due to a falling birth rate, parents will be much more likely to choose the school that offers breakfast club from 8am, a well-resourced after school offering until at least 6pm and ideally a low-cost holiday club covering the hours 8am-6pm. None of this has to be provided by teachers. A lot of schools already offer this, because it reflects the reality of what their parents need, and are very popular.

Having a child is a choice

I've worked in various sectors. Every job had challenging and stressful aspects that I did not understand or appreciate before actually experiencing them myself.
I suspect it's the same for teaching.

I do however agree with @2021x :

What I have learned from these 2 threads is people who have been teachers have very little understanding of the amount of work other professionals do, especially those in essential jobs in the public sector.

I disagree that school is not childcare - the DWP certainly think that it is.

On the 6 weeks I’m agnostic. I can see arguments on both sides but both arguments need to be child centred. I do think there is some evidence that disadvantaged children slip back academically over 6 weeks. But if the summer was shortened then I think the 2 weeks should be added elsewhere - like October and May as a pp suggested.

This basically

The current system is extremely challenging to manage for working parents, so something needs to give.

People saying “European countries have more holidays!!!”, yes, this is based on the outdated assumption that women stay home or only work part time so they can do all the childcare. Also assumption that people have large families and grandparents who can help out.

What happens? People (mostly women) have to take weeks of unpaid leave, or kids are sent to private daycare all summer anyway (very expensive) or young children sit around watching tv.

The solution would be to double paid leave. Or provide more weeks of free paid childcare. No reason schools couldn’t provide this - doesn’t need to be the same activities or staff as normal termtime. Until that happens, you ABVVU.

Yes, but it could be b and c that changes.
In some countries summer holidays are 8 weeks, but there are cheap and subsidised activities for children during that time.

I'm not a parent so seeing it more from the child's perspective.

No, in the European country where I live, there are plenty of state subsidised courses/clubs/activities for children during the summer. Parents who use them get a reduction on their income tax too.

What makes you so sure it "will" happen? (Sorry not picking on you - this is to al who asserted this).

I have been teaching for about 25 years now, and pretty much since I started I have been hearing speculation about this change.

And nothing has changed yet. The prospect used to really upset me and stress me out, but I have learned over time to stop worryintmg about it. I will worry the day it's announced it is actually happening.

It would be a mistake, in my honest opinion, due to the impact on a workforce already in recruitment crisis.

Honestly, in the large secondary comprehensive I work in, I am definitely in the top 5% of people who love their job. Colleagues and management often comment on my energy and positivity, my willingness to go the extra mile with enrichment activities etc. I get annoyed by those teachers who whine and pretend our job is the hardest one ever, because in my view it is a joy and a wild privilege to educate young people.

I am not saying this to show off, but to put what I am about to say in context;

If they significantly shortened the summer holidays I would look to leave education. It would break my heart, and I have no idea what I would do instead..... But tho not the hardest job in the world, it is a job that brings it's own unique challenges, and summer break is essential, in my opinion, to my ability to do my job in the way I want to while maintaining my mental health. And if I, who love my job, feel like that, what the Hell do you think this would do to teachers already on the cusp of leaving the profession.

But it's ok, because there are queues of eager young teachers wanting to take our places......Oh hang on......

Seriously, the outcome of this would be schools full of supply teachers because of unfilled vacancies. And I guarantee you, more learning would be lost through that, than through kids having an extra two weeks off over the summer.

On a separate note, I also think that kids need and deserve the break too. I have such joy filled memories of the long summer holidays as a child - do we really have the right to take that from them. Plus, many families actually LIKE having the time to spend with their kids - I am overjoyed to have so much time with DD, for example.

Yes there are of course families who sadly can't be trusted to, or who for reasons beyond their control cannot, care for their kids appropriately. But should we really make a policy that robs the majority of treasured experiences based on this minority? Surely nstead we should redouble our efforts as a society to find other ways to heal and support these struggling families, not just fob them off with the sticking plaster of a couple of extra weeks in school. (Which is a bit like sticking them in the workhouse as a solution in a Dickensian novel, really).

But as I say, I have heard this so often, I don't think I'll worry till it happens.

"Obviously I can’t take holidays in term time. Parents of school-aged children can't either."

They can't go away, but they can take time off.

Re: “ No other profession has to cram something into 75% of a year follows by a long break”.

In fact, the large accountancy practices have tax specialists on contracts that do exactly that: work a full year’s worth of hours compressed into (approx) May-Jan, and then have 2-3 months off.

So yes, some professions do do that.

In some countries, the entire country shuts down for a whole month and everyone who can be off is - which would help working parents hugely. But that's not the case in the uk.

The way the holidays are spread out isn’t set for children’s benefit though. Lots of kids would benefit from a 2 week October break and 2 week February break then shorter summer holidays.

Bur the original set up was based round harvests, now our assumption that the main holiday will be taken in the summer (dropping it to 4 weeks will make competition for time off greater), and it suits for secondary for exam marking, moderation, results return and signing up for KS5 or University during the break.