Say it with me...

[TesChique]

School. Is. Not. There. To. Be. Free. Childcare.

All this talk of bringing the school summer holidays down to four weeks is boiling me as not one argument is child education centred. Instead its all focussed on making parents lives easier

It is six weeks for more complex reasons than "oh its from when we had farms and we dont have farms now lol oh also itd help me"

What?

Schools are there to educate kids. Schools are funded by tax.
tax is paid by workers .
school holidays interfere with workers ability to work.
so making school holidays support workers is ultimately supporting the children, as it allows it to exist in the first place!

I don't see how it help to have shorter summer holidays when the time lost from summer will just be added on elsewhere. Working parents will still have just as many weeks to find childcare.
Ds's school is one that reduced the summer hols by half a week and made the October half term longer. I thought this was to help working parents but every year they add the teacher training days onto the summer hols so it's still just as long as it ever was anyway.

It would be great to have the holidays spread more evenly round. That autumn term is so long, DS' school only broke up a few days before Christmas and it felt like we were straight into Christmas proper and with no downtime to rest or recharge.

The summer holiday is probably 2 weeks too long imo- we're lucky to have a decent selection of holiday clubs nearby but between £25-£45 a day, it's not cheap, we end up having to use the more expensive ones as they offer the longest hours - we're both still working all the way through a 10-2 holiday club isn't helpful. DS is absolutely fine at any club we put him in but he has friends who really struggle with it.

School isn’t childcare but it’s also mandatory unless you home school (and they’re starting to regulate that).

It’s timings seem to be based around a different era where mother was at home so drop offs at 8:40 and pick up at 3:10 were easier. Take into account inset days and all that, I’m astounded how most parents manage without an extended network of childcare or financial ability to pay for holiday clubs.

Maybe if we lived in an economy where both parents don’t have to work themselves to the bone to barely scrape by and had more than 20 days holiday a year, they’d be a bit more open to the ‘child needs rest’ argument.

This is why inevitably a lot of women leave the workplace or change to part time / end up working term time only.

I really don’t see how people do it (I went part time).

I also think it needs to be child centric.

Currently the children get exhausted as terms goes on and need a break.

I don't know if this proposed reduction to 4 weeks is to add holiday elsewhere in the year or to just reduce the total holiday? If its just moving it it could be helpful to children.

But in another way its nice to have time off when the weather is nicer.

My other concern whether holiday clubs would still be viable or will go up in price to mitigate the loss of 2 weeks? I know some clubs only run for part of the holidays already to try make numbers viable, but with 6 weeks off maybe 1/3 of children are on holiday at any given point but 5 week it could be 1/2 on holiday. It could make it harder to find cover.

I just meant ones less likely to have their own children and maybe renting not owning so less need to use the hols for DIY. I used to staff them too but my current stage in life doesn't allow it.

There's a good reason why there's a shortage of teachers - it's not great pay, they're under-appreciated and it's really hard work.

Education should be supported at home it’s a continuous process, doesn’t have to be arduous just part of what you do.

I wouldn't like a 2 week holiday in October...seems like the worst time to have it. Holidays would still be expensive as you'd need to go abroad for decent weather, and if you are staying in the UK and the kids weren't at holiday club they'd probably spend a lot of time on screens.

I think 6 weeks in summer is fine, any shorter it would be hard for all working parents to AL over in the summer in most work places.

I think more accessible and affordable holiday clubs would be a better solution than changing the school year. DC could learn different things to school as well (eg try different sports or crafts etc)

I absolutely agree. Teachers do a lot of invisible work and there is a lot of work done in schools during summer holidays. Children may have their holidays but that doesn't mean that the entire school is simply "off work" as well. I am perfectly aware of that.

I simply find the argument that teachers need an uninterrupted break of xyz weeks (especially if that amount is considerably more than what people in other sectors would be) somewhat unreasonable. And I have never heard an imo genuinely convincing argument up to now.

I support teachers
We made our choices with our children taking school holidays in mind
We had a questionnaire recently about slightly altering the school holidays and said we will support whatever the school decides.

Genuine question, if you could get the same time management as a nurse i.e. work shifts (earlies and lates), 9 to 5 but only spend 4 hours of that teaching in front of kids, and the other 4 hours away from the class prepping, marking etc. would this be a better working life for you?

The truth is nothing you have described about being difficult for teachers is any different from any other public sector workers who works with people including the toilet breaks (there is actually a condition called nurses bladder).

The bit about far flung places would still be achievable if children were about to have the same leave allowance as their parents, i.e. 30 days plus bank holidays they could still go away for 3 weeks, at any time.

Can you see what she does at home?
in school at 8am, school day 9-4, home at 6, 2 hrs preparing and marking in the evening. Different obvs if finish at 3pm.
Maybe a little different with increased computerisation of resources and shared resources-often a number in class with language needs or other educational needs though.

I haven’t. I have worked in professional services firms where nobody except support staff went home at 5 and started work the next day. Where the second you closed a deal you’d start worrying about what has gone wrong. I have a friend who is a nurse manager and has had to do rotas etc on her day off. Another friend is an OT and describes herself as drowning in paperwork. I have a friend who is a police officer doing a security for a politician who has no toliet access.
Etc.
Yes, teaching is challenging. So are a lot of roles.

I will never understand why it is considered that British children have completely diferent needs to children in the rest of Europe/US.
The cast majority of those countries have much longer summer holidays. Are we doing something so wrong that only British children forget everything during our much shorter dummer holidays?

In Ireland we get much longer summer holidays. Thanks God all of that nonsense is behind me.

I’m saying that isn’t the case for all teachers. All teachers are not working ten hour days.

I’m in Ireland. Hence why I find these types of threads exhausting. 3-3.5 months off for a teenager is insane.

I work in school Summer is already only 4 weeks for me. Term ended on Friday. I am going in this week (admittedly an hour later than usual) and I will be in again for the last week before the new term (plus checking emails on a regular basis even while I am away with family). Obviously I can’t take holidays in term time. Half terms are already tricky as so many UK holidays are Friday to Friday so I often have to book and miss out in the first night. I don’t get the whole of Easter either as I usually have to do a day or so at the beginning and end. Plus I still need to check emails at least every other day.

Probably why we have a declining birth rate.

What time is 110 please? 11 am?

I think a teacher should be working a 40hour week, like the rest of us and probably should be working most of their holiday too. Like a normal job. It should only be teaching and everything pertaining to that. Not being extended to managing poor behaviour, even worse parents, expected to do parenting, change nappies and all of the other ridiculous things that have been added to that role.

So each local authority works it out on a rota basis. Each year x number of schools are used and x are scheduled for works. I am a teacher, I know how buildings are maintained in the hols but we have to start looking creatively at this.

Just shouting "it's not childcare" is not the answer. We already accept that schools provide social / welfare care with breakfast clubs, FSM, safeguarding processes..they are the hubs used for vaccinations, weight checks, used to be nit checks. The reality is that the shape of society has changed so much in the last couple of generations that we can't just keep pretending it hasn't. Two working parents, single parents, older or still working grandparents, more cars and less safe outside space, less acceptance of kids just disappearing off with mates for hours, all this means we can't just carry on and let people constantly scramble about. I'd love to see a cross party commission into this, with representation from educators, exam boards, social workers, employers etc to come up with creative solutions. No change will suit everyone, it can't, but the current system only really suits the now smaller minority who can afford paid childcare or who has the massive luxury of a SAHP.

Do you know many full timers? Not saying you're wrong, just curious.