Say it with me...

[TesChique]

School. Is. Not. There. To. Be. Free. Childcare.

All this talk of bringing the school summer holidays down to four weeks is boiling me as not one argument is child education centred. Instead its all focussed on making parents lives easier

It is six weeks for more complex reasons than "oh its from when we had farms and we dont have farms now lol oh also itd help me"

Well they can bring it down. Cue more parents moaning about holiday costs. Fewer weeks. So higher prices. More teacher burnout and kids exhausted and struggling.

Well it is childcare. I personally like the long holidays. I’m used to longer 8 weeks in summer. But yes, it is childcare for the majority of the time and absolutely should reflect the needs of families who are both working. It depends how you want to look at it. Either increase teaching time or build in wrap around care to supplement the teaching offer. Schools seem to be better at not shutting at first sniff of snow these days as they finally realised they cripple the workforce when they do.

I'd like to know when exactly I could take annual leave in a four week break, considering that I have to work for four weeks solid in the school holidays, particularly as DP's employer only begrudgingly permitted 5 single days over the first 3 weeks due to the needs of Finance/Premises/Exams in August.

Can't take leave in term time, work all but 3 days over Christmas, specific tasks have to be completed at Easter, Year 7 application deadline in the October half term along with census, progress measures checking and suchlike, data drops and processing of such in February, exams and next academic year stuff in May/June...

We do actually need to be able to not work occasionally.

First and foremost it should reflect whats best for the childrens education

Childcare is a byproduct and shouldnt be the driving force behind school structure decisions

Surely the learning loss over the summer means that it would make more sense to spread holidays more evenly over the year for the students and teachers?

Are they talking about reducing it or just moving 2 weeks to other parts of the year (this is something that was considered in Wales but it wasn’t voted in)? If every school did that the cost of holidays should even out and the impact to education would be minimal.

I wouldn’t support just adding 2 weeks to the school year. DH is a teacher and needs (and deserves) his holidays and I think children spend a bit too much time in school in the UK already.

I think a change to move the weeks to elsewhere is better, especially if you consider those children whose home life isn’t stable. 6 weeks is a very long time with no access to a trusted adult outside of the family, of breakfast club/a hot meal etc. Some of these homes will reach breaking point after 2 or 3 weeks - but maybe it would be lessened if the parents knew it was only another week and school would restart.

I did also read arguments for the change relating to children with SEN who struggle with lack of routine. Not something I’m experienced in but I can understand the points.

It’s not only about childcare. My child has profound SEND. The change in routine and the long gap with no school is extremely distressing to him, and many of his peers.

But there’s good educational arguments for a shorter summer? Especially for kids with SEN or from deprived backgrounds.

I'm torn, I'm a mum and a teacher and I can see both sides. My kids get equally as bored and ratty as everyone else's, plus I end up having my nieces/nephews as childcare is so difficult for my siblings. Maybe the holidays need a rethink.
However, as a teacher, I see kids get more and more burnt out by the end of a term, they desperately need the time away- frankly so do the teachers. If I didn't have the summer holidays I think I would look at another job, and I know a lot of secondary colleagues who agree. In a profession that is in a serious recruitment crisis, I don't think this is a smart move. Teachers have access to a lot of non-teaching weeks but little/no flexibility otherwise for time off, telling us that we're moving to an extra week at October and an extra week in February but 4 weeks over the summer is not going to encourage us to remain in the system.

Finally, I want to throw out there about exams. A huge proportion of exam board employees are secondary school teachers doing it for extra cash, marking of GCSE and A-Level exams happens in the summer term, and I am now working for the board on making sure everything is ready for results day in August. This is another area that would not appreciate people suddenly deciding they are too busy to take part.

@TesChique see I disagree. Schools need to be more in tune with the needs of their users. Both children and parents. Both parents working is expected to be the norm nowadays so government funded school should reflect the need to support that. It’s naive to not realise that school is childcare and that society is different now so education setting need to support that as the main provider of childcare.

My kids are utterly exhausted by the summer break, they need the long break to rest and recharge - and it’s 7 weeks this year in my local authority - yes it’s hard to keep it all covered but I wouldn’t support shortening it. The kids need a break.

School exists to educate children. Schools are under no obligation whatsoever to make parents’ lives easier.

@ruethewhirl wrong. The fact is teachers need to care for children at school. Society needs workers. The government is well aware that school provides childcare and needs to support that to meet the needs of the parents to support reduced benefits/keeping people in employment. You cannot be this naive. I have no skin in the game and don’t have children that need childcare anymore and haven’t for some years but it’s not hard to see how society is evolving and how schools need to change and the political drivers behind it. This will come. Schools will change hours to meet childcare needs in holidays one way or another. Either through changes to teaching times or wrap around provision. But it will happen. And it needs to.

It's not a babysitting or 24/7 parenting service. That's an entirely separate undertaking and not within the remit of educators.

I love the school holidays and think they’re fine as they are but what are the complex reasons you refer to for the 6 week summer break? You haven’t said.

What about some sort of hybrid where school premises are used in holiday weeks overseen and staffed by independent companies that run the wrap-around during term time. Not expecting teachers to do it (though they could have an option to take on extra weeks work if they chose..some of the younger ones would). The premises are safe, appropriate etc and familiar. I absolutely know there would be operational issues with resources being used and abused (my classroom gets used for playschemes and anything not locked away is trashed) but this could be overcome. Funding though, is the issue. Are these schemes free / gov funded as schools are and if so where is that coming from?

I think the grand plans to give two weeks in October instead won't bring holiday prices down. Because look at how the price of holidays explodes during the Easter holidays and summer half term. It'll be just as expensive. Travel companies will increase prices in accordance with demand.
I don't think kids "need" 6 weeks all at once, per se, but I think they'll resent it changing and be more demotivated than ever with going to school, so I don't think changing it is a good idea for them.

My kids have ASD and struggle with a change in routine. I'd be in favour of a four week summer and a two week October and May..I'd also change the Mah so it falls equidistant between Easter and summer rather than that fixed week. I'm aware I don't speak for everyone and they will never please everyone.

Teachers are there because children are legally obliged to have an education. Working parents is a by product.

The May half term is in the middle of exam season. Feb half term is right when everyone is trying to finish content so difficult to extend. I agree it's difficult because what works for young primary doesn't work for older kids but if you have different ones it totally messes up family time.

I personally think the six weeks should be shorter but the other weeks taken at other points if the year. So holidays are more spread out, not all in one chunk. And yes working families needs do need to be considered because that is the reality for most families in today’s society. Not the archaic system we currently have in place.
There should also be more flexibility for family events and the importance of family time nurtured (rather than being expected to be crammed in a set schedule accordingly to the local authority)
Some children find 6 weeks disregulating and it makes it harder for them to settle back in to school routine after a long break. Intimes gone by summer was playing out with your friends all day. Now it’s childcare or a club because your parents have to work. Not relaxing or rejuvenating at all just a different version of school that costs money.

What if it was -
Year begins in September
Holidays as follows-
1 week in October
1week in November
2 weeks December (Xmas)
1 week Jan
1 week feb
1 week march
1 week april
1 werk june
1 werk july
2 weeks august
Schools could choose their rest weeks (except Xmas) so there’s no longer be holiday inflation . Parents can plan events a little easier and be more flexible with holidays. Spaced out child care costs/needs. Would likely reduce unauthorised absence

And summer learning loss is a massive issue, particularly for the most vulnerable children.

People can rail that ‘school isn’t childcare’ all they want, but the fundamental facts remains that a) school hours are incompatible with standard working hours b) childcare is prohibitively expensive c) wraparound childcare is scarce d) the cost of living requires two incomes e) the state of the British economy requires as many taxpayers as possible – namely women.

So something’s got to give, hasn’t it?

Have found it interesting reading about how much knowledge is lost over the summer, feels like the entire education system could do with an overhaul tbh.

Feel very much in the minority actually counting down to the holidays. It's lovely having unstructured time together, without young people being exhausted/dealing with all the peer drama, holding it together all day at school to then have emotions spill into home, not to mention homework and all the extra stuff. Nearly every primary school child I know has been completely exhausted and very emotional for at least the last fortnight. Bring on the end of term!