Say it with me...

[TesChique]

School. Is. Not. There. To. Be. Free. Childcare.

All this talk of bringing the school summer holidays down to four weeks is boiling me as not one argument is child education centred. Instead its all focussed on making parents lives easier

It is six weeks for more complex reasons than "oh its from when we had farms and we dont have farms now lol oh also itd help me"

I dont think people are claiming that its purely childcare and that they don't go there primarily to learn, but being in school enables someone to go out to work also. Both can be true, im not sure why some are purposefully obtuse about this. I would absolutely love 6 weeks off with DS, or to have these amazing holiday clubs people talk about to send him to, as it is we are juggling annual leave and having to send him to the only club within a reasonable radius which doesnt offer a full day and costs £45. As my previous post, dont agree the holidays should be shortened, but annual leave should be raised for everyone.

Who wants a week off in February?!
October 2 weeks primarily benefits those who can afford to go away - it doesn’t make holidays more affordable as the companies aren’t stupid or benevolent.

schools staying open for deprived kids is another example of their remit drastically expanding in recent years picking up the shortfall for social failings that mean we have more children in poverty, with unsupported parents at the end of their tether.

why not instead encourage schools to become massively subsidised holiday care clubs / range of different activities, means tested or free for pp??

School is not childcare!

Instead we should be asking why we have a society and economy in which both parents need to work full time to make ends meet?

This is it for me too.

FWIW my kids’ school does open in the holidays with a holiday club provider, 09.30-3.30, with an extra charge for a longer day. £45 for a full day.

There are local free HAF clubs, all with very short hours 09.30-3.30 or so. It’s a great program, but if the provision doesn’t match the need kids understandably don’t attend.

I love teaching, genuinely. I think I’m pretty good at it, and I really, really give a shit. I put everything I have into my job during term time. I would definitely quit and find a different job if we didn’t have the summer holidays. Teaching is so rewarding and important to me, but I couldn’t live at that level of ‘on’ without a decent break.

Teachers are not the only people who work hard, but there are different perks in the private sector. I worked in a very comfortable professional job before teaching and whilst it was hard work, the pace was different. Things like flexible hours; my DH still has this, he can go to the dentist at 0830, wait in to let a plumber in, etc. and rock up a bit later than his usual 0900 start. He can ‘nip out’ to the shops at lunch. He even has time for a wee run at lunch. Then he showers in his staff changing rooms. Coffee is provided. If he works late, they get food ordered in AND he gets paid overtime. They have lovely workspaces, office parties, gifts, pay rises, promotions, new work equipment if they need it, little chats at each other’s desks. He puts his headphones on when he needs to work in peace. He takes an impromptu half day if he wants to go somewhere else and just works a bit later another day. He gets bonuses, shares, healthcare. Oh and he can go to the toilet WHENEVER he needs to. I don’t get any of those perks, but I do get a six week block of utter freedom. If that was gone, I’d go straight back to the private sector.

A pp suggested breaking the year up into week long holidays. Lots of my children have grandparents/family in far flung places and spend their longer holidays visiting them. When can they do that? What if teachers or children wanted to go on a long haul flight anywhere?

State educational facilities need to reflect the needs of the society in which they operate. Hardly an extreme concept, everything changes and adapts over time.

I have no real skin in this game as we own our own business so can and do flex around the holidays, and used to home educate so have no concerns being with and entertaining our children. But I have yet to see any real evidence for why it is better educationally to have this long break in the middle. Given that if challenged, the cry is always "it is education not childcare", "it isn't about the teachers" and "it isn't just because of agriculture any more" you'd think there was heaps of evidence and research to back that up.

None of my kids have ever been exhausted by school, it really isn't that trying. They're done by 3:15 every day, and being in school isn't that taxing. They're looking forward to a break and deserve one, absolutely. But exhausted and unable to learn any more so they need 6-8 whole weeks off?! No, definitely not.

Only younger teachers would want to staff holiday clubs? What a weird assumption, I work in an independent and have run 2 weeks themed holiday clubs for years now. Am in my 50s for reference. It is my pride and joy. Absolutely love doing it and always look forward to it. Very relaxed, fun and educational.

@gossipgossipgossip How would schools choosing their own weeks throughout the year work if you had, say, 3 kids in 3 different schools? Also, what's May done to offend you?!

This is basically what happens at the moment. Most of the summer holiday clubs operate out of the local primary or secondary schools. It works well but it’s £££, I have spent £1200 this summer on 4 weeks care for my two. It’s crippling.

Show me a better performing education system with shorter summer holidays, OP, because I don’t think there is one.

I think the holidays in the summer are too short, I don’t want 2 weeks in October with poor weather (and it’s a busy time at my work). If some kids can’t cope with a long break, stop expecting the entire education system and society to revolve around that - they already do more than enough.

None of the schools near us have holiday clubs. There are no holiday clubs (aside from private, football club type things) operating in our county. Must be hugely hard for those without flexibility.

School is pretty prescriptive these days and I think it stifles many kids who could use those long summer holidays just to be and develop themselves in different areas (away from screens)
Even if it’s just time to stare at ants and wonder what they’re doing or poking the ground with sticks or playing with the kids next door outside. They’re engaged in unstructured learning. I really don’t think they need more structured school.

As a teacher, and a parent, I think what is needed are better and subsidised holiday play schemes. Kids need time away from school, we have our own families and need time with them. Also, many of my students visit family abroad during the long break, this is the only time of year that it is practical for many of them.
In addition, some Academy trusts have changed to 2 weeks in October and 5 weeks in the summer. For those of us who holiday in the UK that is pretty miserable, there is nothing open and the weather is pants.
Another option is just going to 4 weeks in the summer. Fine, but that will cost the government around a grand per teacher in extra salary as we aren't paid for the holiday so will work 2 weeks extra. So the parents moaning will end up with higher taxes anyway.
So parents, higher taxes, shorter school hols and tired kids, or status quo and better and cheaper holiday clubs?

This. My child isn’t vulnerable but I can tell already his reading level is slipping from being out of school since end June (not UK).

Children were needed years ago to help with the harvest that is no long the case and school holidays should reflect that.

In Ireland, secondary school summer holidays are 3 months! I know several parents of 13/14 year old struggling to know what to do with them as they are too old for camps & too young to get a summer job. It’s doesn’t benefit teenagers to be hanging around with no purpose for 3 months.

Do you read with him regularly during the holidays? Because surely that's the easy fix?

I agree it’s not childcare.
So schools need to stop dictating what dc eat, wear and what hairstyle they have.

How on earth would businesses run if employees were off for school holidays? The whole country would grind to a halt! You really haven't thought this through.

School isn't childcare seems to be a truism people regularly trot out. While yes, that's not the primary purpose it's a pretty important part of it. Parents generally need to work and schools need to be part of the setup that enables this. Not that I'm saying just stick the kids (and teachers) in school 47 weeks a year! But working out how we can actually help parents to function is surely desirable.

My friend in Denmark was telling me how the schools are open most weeks for her kids with things like holiday schemes in the school holidays. Honestly, one of the reasons I don't have kids was looking at the nightmare trying to juggle a normal office job and school hours would be.

Here's a crazy idea. Do additional learning an enrichment at home. Take them to the library. Have them read books and work on fun projects or subjects. This used to be normal instead of kids being stuck in front of screens all the time.

Yes of course I do. But is not an “easy fix”, I’m not a teacher. He has lost his routine due to attending different summer camps, and is trying to manage him being around outside those hours while both working.

His camp today was just cancelled due to weather and we now have no childcare and I’m under pressure in work. If I couldn’t WFH I don’t know what I’d do.

Whatever about the UK, the system in Ireland needs to be looked at. My son finishes school at 110 everyday. He has a week off in October, two at Christmas, a week ish in February or May and two weeks at Easter. Then he’s off for 2 months in the summer. In secondary that increases to 3. That is not in his best interests.

Well it's a sizeable chunk of my childcare...the vast majority of families need both parents working, so realistically it absolutely is a form of childcare, even if there is more to it than simply looking after our kids. I mean, it's bordering on semantics really isn't it....

Please explain how I can take my 7 year old to the library while I’m at work?

What else used to be the norm? SAHMs and children needing to help with harvest.

Exactly! Parents don't want to parent that's at the crux of this. They don't value education either. I notice not one argument is for children to learn more

It isn’t. For the record, I highly value education. Several people have cited summer slippage as a concern, so yes they are arguing for their child to learn more.

Parents cannot teach children & work at the same time.

No parent wants to parent nor value education ? Patently untrue
peopke are just talking about their biggest headache: how to get through the summer holidays without being sacked .