Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

[Siff]

I know Constance Marten and her partner made dangerous and illegal choices, and I’m not excusing that — a baby died and that’s heartbreaking. But I can’t stop thinking about the way the case was handled and whether the police have some responsibility in how things unfolded.

As a mum of four who’s struggled mentally after birth, I keep thinking: if I had just given birth, was vulnerable, and felt like the whole world was hunting me down — would I have thought clearly? Probably not. The media coverage was intense, and the police were everywhere. The pressure must have been overwhelming.

I honestly believe the fear created by the police operation pushed them into making more and more desperate and risky decisions to stay hidden. It wasn’t just a search — it felt like a witch hunt. No safeguarding, no attempt to reach her as a vulnerable mother, just a hard push to capture and punish.

I think that approach had consequences. The police must take some responsibility for creating the kind of fear and pressure that led to this tragedy. The way they went about it likely made things worse — not better — for the baby.

It’s easy to say she was selfish or unstable, but mental health in the postnatal period is fragile. People don’t always think rationally when terrified. I just wish there had been more humanity in how it was all handled.
Anyone else feel the same?

No, I don’t feel the same. Exactly what do you think the police should have done differently? The emphasis was on finding the family as quickly as possible, before the baby could come to any harm - and clearly, sadly, even that wasn’t enough to find them in time.

This was not a case of a wonderful mother who developed pnd and started acting out of character. Her first four children had already been removed from her because she wasn’t prioritising their safety (and according to a report I read today, she failed to keep to the regular appointments arranged for her to meet up with those children, much to their distress).

She may have mental health problems. What about the baby's father? And even if they both do, the highest priority was, correctly, finding and safeguarding the baby.

I’m also an adoptive parent and the thing that worries me now is that given that this has been such a high profile case, I sincerely hope that the other children and their adoptive parents are being appropriately and adequately supported.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/constance-marten-life-prison-jail-7vjrql7dh~

Sorry for the Times linke (paywall), but in the comments section it says she was awarded legal aid. I can't get my head around that.

What an appalling pair of evil people.

Constance is still under his spell even now, after everything that's happened.

It appears from the BBC article linked in this thread, that they are both in thrall to each other and that the whole awful situation was a case of ‘folie à deux’ It doesn’t sound to me like she is a poor little rich girl being led astray by Gorden. Constance Marten is a very strong and confident personality by all accounts.

Just to say for the sake of accuracy, that when people mention that the couple often cancelled or didn’t turn up to contact visits with their older children, that was because they were trying to conceal her 5th pregnancy. Apparently prior to her becoming visibly pregnant, there were contact visits where it is reported that they appeared to be very much engaging with their children.

Honestly, I don't understand why they didn't leave the country when she was still pregnant. They must have known they would be hunted in this country because of their SS history. They could have lived in their own way somewhere else where nobody would know them or ever heard of them. It's so strange they didn't leave.

It also demonstrates how people only look at the surface- what is being done/released in the press.

they have no idea what is being done behind the scenes, don’t consider what other knowledge or investigations the police are doing behind the scenes that they can’t release.

Nicola Bulley was one- even here long threads about what the police should be doing, that “expert” who said he could find her when the police hadn’t. Paedophile hunter groups as well, who seem to think police do nothing because it’s not live-streamed.

people like the o/p who are woefully misinformed but think they know better than the experts with years of experience.

Was that when the children were removed though ? Or maybe I’m getting mixed up ?

Yes I feel deeply sorry for the children. I too have limited sympathy re her repeated pregnancies, but I can kind of see why it happened. I am not sure I buy 'evil' over seriously mentally unwell. Such a tragedy.

Well I think these two people were not in anyway within the boundaries of a normal mother experiencing post partem issues.
Everything in their life stories is so far from a normal upbringing and life that they seem to be drtached from reality.
Both seemnto have phychiateic issues far beyond a postpartem depression. They were dangerously detached and volatile and had prior history of extreme behaviour.
Both seem not to understand what they have done wrong.

No they are to blame, sticking a vulnerable and any other label on it does not excuse it or make anyone else at fault, I am tired of endless excuses used whenever a woman does something wrong, giving birth or having a child/ren is not an excuse for anyone whether mother, father, grandparent or anyone else

Society keeps on coming up with labels it doesn't stop children being harmed

The only "failure" there was was with letting a violent rapist who raped someone when he was 14 and threatened to kill her children, who assaulted police officers in the hospital and who likely pushed his pregnant partner out of a window so she miscarried roam free.

The actual case, they were doing what needed to be done. Health services were pleading for them to hand their baby over for her own safety.

They could have left her somewhere safe and stayed on the run. They could have left her body to be found respectfully. They didn't.

They acted so poorly in court that the judge said he'd never seen anything like it before

Disgusting pair of humans

This is when mandatory sterilisation sounds like a good idea

It’s a key tenant of the justice system that everyone has the right to a defence.

if she qualifies for legal aid it it correct that she would get it.

no matter what she’s done she is entitled to legal counsel.

I kind of agree with you. It only takes a few things to go wrong for many of us to find ourselves in a similar situation. There but for the grace of God.

In my experience removal of the child(ren) is the last resort, not the default.

She didn't ask her family or her trust fund for money she refused so.was "entitled " to legal aid she also kept firing her solicitors, she sounds a deeply unpleasant person without any remorse for any of her actions.or decisions.

I think you need to read up on the background of this case

And also put your experiences aside and how you might have felt

Ultimately the concern was about the welfare of a new born baby and how they in the past (past behaviour so often repeats) had neglected their children to such an extent all were taken into care. This does not happen because they were not particularly caring parents this happened because they are neglectful parents who put themselves first

Yes I understand that. But also (at one point at least) had an income of £250,000 a year.

And many many other people with a much smaller income are denied legal aid aren't they?

Ah, ok.

They were already living in a tent when she was pregnant with the first baby, before any involvement with social services or the police. There was no reason to be doing that so they were making terrible decisions long before they went on the run.

I’m certainly not a few things wrong away from dating a rapist, abusing my children or leaving a newborn baby in a freezing tent then shoving them in a carrier bag with some rubbish once they’re dead.

What was her income at the time of the crime? You can’t deny someone legal aid due to a previous job.

It really doesn’t, this was a catalogue of repeated decisions and refusal of help and support. It’s incredibly hard to remove children from their parents - there’s a huge amount of intervention along the way and very clear warnings about the potential consequences. It’s much more than a few things going wrong.

It particularly takes the cake when that someone hasn't even bothered to read the reports properly before sticking the boot in.

Both parents missed more than half their arranged visits with their children while they were in foster care. When the children cried having been stood up yet again, Marten just coldly said they need to look at the bigger picture.

I think drugs must have been involved. Not just cannabis. I can't think of why they would not turn up for their kids if they wanted them back so badly. Gordon threw her out of a widow and her and the baby could've died. But she still stayed with him and that's why the kids couldn't be with them. Well, one of the reasons.

It wasn't a job. It was from her family trust fund. It was in the BBC article yesterday.