Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

[Siff]

I know Constance Marten and her partner made dangerous and illegal choices, and I’m not excusing that — a baby died and that’s heartbreaking. But I can’t stop thinking about the way the case was handled and whether the police have some responsibility in how things unfolded.

As a mum of four who’s struggled mentally after birth, I keep thinking: if I had just given birth, was vulnerable, and felt like the whole world was hunting me down — would I have thought clearly? Probably not. The media coverage was intense, and the police were everywhere. The pressure must have been overwhelming.

I honestly believe the fear created by the police operation pushed them into making more and more desperate and risky decisions to stay hidden. It wasn’t just a search — it felt like a witch hunt. No safeguarding, no attempt to reach her as a vulnerable mother, just a hard push to capture and punish.

I think that approach had consequences. The police must take some responsibility for creating the kind of fear and pressure that led to this tragedy. The way they went about it likely made things worse — not better — for the baby.

It’s easy to say she was selfish or unstable, but mental health in the postnatal period is fragile. People don’t always think rationally when terrified. I just wish there had been more humanity in how it was all handled.
Anyone else feel the same?

If they attend they certainly won't stand.

For such an apparently intelligent person, she was daft as a brush, thinking that she could pretend to be an Irish traveller with no identification, arrive at hospital, have a baby, get a house, just by putting on an accent.

I think she showed signs of insanity as a much younger person, the family shame stopped them getting her psychiatric help, shipping off to Africa to cure her, it proves intelligent people are very stupid, the consequences were deadly to so many people.

I don't think she's daft I think she's insanely entitled and looks down on everybody else. She has a bizarre sense of superiority.

Yon can’t upload documents on here but if you look on Tattle and Websleuths both have the judgements from various family court hearings. It’s clear that SS worked with them extensively (CM in particular) and gave them many, many chances to be better parents but they were entitled and thought they knew better than anyone else.

It will be interesting to see if there are pre-sentencing psychiatric reports and whether the couple agree to talk. I suspect she won't co-operate but I wonder if their conduct during the cases will impact their sentencing too?

Apparently none of Marten's family attended the second court case and have not visited her in prison.

You'll have to ask that query of police forces, not other agencies. Most crimes that are reported are NFA. There isnt enough above the threshold to progress to CPS and even if there is at that stage the CPS may feel they havent got enough. I have worked with some parents who have prosecutions of child neglect but they arent the majority, most result in NFA

None of this is uncommon Im afraid. It may sound shocking but theres lots of this behaviour from parents. Not unusual.

I have worked with some parents who have prosecutions of child neglect but they arent the majority, most result in NFA

Is it because in many cases the principal witnesses are the young children themselves, and it would only add to their trauma to make statements, even if they were able to?

Yes partly, a lot of the evidence is what the social worker or teacher saw and while that is powerful enough, that is a witness/observer, not the victim.

Its very traumatic for children to talk about how they are parented, many are scared, many are loyal and many dont see that theres anything wrong.

I really feel a lot of these posts are acting like adult women have no agency. My own mother was abused, it's horrific. But the mother is still a grown human being w a rational mind. Infantilising women & acting like they have no choice does no one any good.

@TallerSally
Excellent post

I think sentencing will be interesting. This pair did their utmost to frustrate proceedings. The Guardian article gives real insight into this and the judge has clearly led a fair trial in the most difficult circumstances (and managed his own frustration with the pair very well) - especially when CM tried to throw the whole thing.

I very much suspect he will be finely crafting his words over the summer and I wouldn't blame him in taking some pleasure in doing this.

I suspect they won’t turn up though.

That's the issue here I think- you're a kind, normal mother trying to empathise w this cruel, evil Constance. She was not a normal person. It goes without saying that Mark Gordon is certainly not!

@Arran2024

My last foster child made some serious disclosures to me about things that happened several months prior to coming into care.
When the police came to speak to them, they refused to talk. It was too traumatic, also they were terrified that the children left in the home, wouldn't love them anymore if they were removed from the home. They were convinced that the parents didn't do these things to the siblings. He was definitely the scapegoat of the family.
Neither would the siblings talk to the police.
So although I had a highly traumatised young person, it was blatantly obvious that something bad had happened, no injuries, no bruises, no evidence so NFA

how they havent ripped her apart in prison i dont know shes a baby killer

Yes, most of them are. I know all about him, and some others connected to him and the Ireland North Cyprus exits . Once you get them together what starts as 'alternate mental realities' can become a very real thing, especially where money can be waved.

I believe it was CM who brought up Ian Josephs, his Forced Adoption website, his supposed intelligence and position, and the ease of 'hiring someone to take Victoria abroad' in her first trial.
Had she not been the subject of an intense very public police search, and made herself way to hot to handle and left everything way too late, that plan actually wouldn't be as ridiculous as she sounded in court, but the realities of that is a conversation difficult to have publicly in these times.

I originally read about her connection/s and that timeline in a 'minority paper' but this is a conformation from The Times:

Facing the threat of court proceedings, Marten contacted Ian Josephs, a retired British businessman based in Monaco, who runs a campaign helping parents threatened with what he describes as “forced adoption”.

Ian Josephs
Josephs recalled: “We would have spoken three or four times and I gave her advice on how to keep her children, to take them to Ireland or France where they do not have false adoptions.”

Separately:

"Josephs, 92, said: “She should not have returned voluntarily from Ireland. I said to her, ‘You are free to go back [to the UK] but don’t take the children with you’. But she took the chance, and lost them.”

I think I'm allowed to say I would be very surprised if his 'advice' was not rather more detailed. It's quite common currency.

My daughtercwas admitted to hospital 4 times before the age of 1 for losing weight. Each time she put on weight only to be discharged and lose weight again. She was being starved. This is documented, as is the stay in the residential centre. So they had proof. They also had older siblings who might have talked, but I have since spoken to them and they say they weren't asked.

Basically imo sws liked the birth parents and tried to keep them out of trouble.

I'm sorry but your belief that social workers could have any influence on police or CPS decisions is deluded

Who was starving her?

I'm afraid my own experiences mean I don't find it shocking or unusual, but sadly don't find rotten behaviors from those supposed to protect particularly shocking or unusual either.
Messed up and rotten people occupy all positions in life. We can do more these days to keep them out of some professions, but not parenthood until after they've proved their priorities.

I assume the bio parents

Birth mother

It is disgraceful that abusive parents aren't prosecuted, abuse DC are up there with abused women, not worth the time.

As we share a common law, I can say that our countries are falling because there is no consequences for violence unless it results in murder, failure to increase prison space is probably the biggest factor.

At least you have domestic adoption, children in Ireland are forever fostered without parental consent. 🥲

Found this a really interesting read and overview of the personalities involved

www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jul/15/inside-the-trial-of-constance-marten-and-mark-gordon?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social_img&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawLnGC1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHiXgrBUjXaQ2eY1gCCdyMDLm3TmdfRo-LZOTQw7P2YSFBz6ucgI67kKvzY8a_aem_AEw7Y-lrwkl68p4F_mdaHQ#Echobox=1752820490

OP I hope you're still reading these because I've just watched the BBC Big Cases documentary on this and you starting this thread has pissed me off all over again.

It's purely because the police worked their arses off with CCTV and media appeals that they were found when they were, someone recognised them from the media appeals and called 999.

Watch the part where they get arrested.

They both refuse to tell the police, who you can tell are doing all they can to keep it together as the clock is ticking to save her, and he demands FOOD. They give him some chicken and he demands MAYONNAISE ffs.

All while their babies decomposed body in lying in a lidl bag for life hundreds of miles away.

They know exactly where she is but never told the police, they had to find her themselves.
I hope the officers who found her had good support.

And I hope you've reflected and now realise that it is ONLY because the police put the pressure on that they were found when they were and hadn't fled the country and justice, and innocent Victoria could be given the tiny bit of dignity in the end she deserved and her own parents never afforded her.

Watch the BBC documentary.