Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

[Siff]

I know Constance Marten and her partner made dangerous and illegal choices, and I’m not excusing that — a baby died and that’s heartbreaking. But I can’t stop thinking about the way the case was handled and whether the police have some responsibility in how things unfolded.

As a mum of four who’s struggled mentally after birth, I keep thinking: if I had just given birth, was vulnerable, and felt like the whole world was hunting me down — would I have thought clearly? Probably not. The media coverage was intense, and the police were everywhere. The pressure must have been overwhelming.

I honestly believe the fear created by the police operation pushed them into making more and more desperate and risky decisions to stay hidden. It wasn’t just a search — it felt like a witch hunt. No safeguarding, no attempt to reach her as a vulnerable mother, just a hard push to capture and punish.

I think that approach had consequences. The police must take some responsibility for creating the kind of fear and pressure that led to this tragedy. The way they went about it likely made things worse — not better — for the baby.

It’s easy to say she was selfish or unstable, but mental health in the postnatal period is fragile. People don’t always think rationally when terrified. I just wish there had been more humanity in how it was all handled.
Anyone else feel the same?

Yes, you’re right. I still don’t think it should be presented as absolute fact though.

There can be quite a debate about this though because it was found to be fact in a fact finding hearing.

Anyone writing about this, in reports or assessments later, making reference to this would need to write it as fact. I got into huge trouble once for implying that we didnt know if something was true/ a fact because it hadnt been tried in a criminal court of law but had been found to be a fact in the fact finding hearing (I didnt believe this particular thing had happened).

Bear in mind this works both ways, a fact finding hearing can find that a child was not abused for example, even if all the evidence and social workers/parents/health professionals feel the child was. - just one example

You then cant use that information to assess that someone is a risk to the child because it was found as fact that the child was not abused.

I don’t think it was necessary to publicise the case. The media have made an absolute drama of it.

You don't think it was necessary to try to find the baby before they killed her? Gosh, that's a take

Dont be an idiot.

Why don't you explain what you mean if it's not that?

That’s really interesting. So if a judge is of the opinion that, on the balance of probabilities, something did or didn’t happen, regardless of any actual proof, it becomes a fact? I thought ‘balance of probabilities’ was used in civil cases, though, and that ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ was the standard used in criminal law?

Really? I think it's very important that people understand how a minority of the population treat their children and behave towards figures in authority. A lot of naive people on here who seem to have no idea how utterly cruel and selfish some people can be.

I can't think of any adopted child I know (and I know quite a few, adopters do stick together) who that wouldn't apply to. We didn't even see the lovely foster carers for 6 months after placement to avoid unsettling and confusing DC.

An older child who asks for contact is one thing but for direct contact to be the starting point seems mad to me. Most birth parents aren't able to see why their children were removed or why their behaviour wasn't good enough to keep their children. Siblings or grandparents is a different question, they're not the reason the DC were removed.

Look at the birth parents in this case, they'd never be able to behave properly in contact or even be trusted to turn up. My DCs BM didn't turn up to contact consistently when DC were in foster care because she found it too upsetting, and she couldn't grasp that had an impact on DC, and she is a million times better parent than these 2.

Child protection process are civil proceedings so the burden of proof is balance of probability. If that burden of proof is met then it deemed a fact.

They were arrested after a member of the public recognised them from the media and called the police. Do you think they shouldn’t have faced justice for killing their baby?

So if, during civil proceedings, a criminal act (pushing her out of a window) becomes a fact, so judged on the balance of probabilities, it still isn’t enough to get a conviction in the criminal court?

No because the burden of proof for criminal cases is beyond reasonable doubt, and her claim that he didn’t do it would introduce enough reasonable doubt.

How do you suggest they searched for a vulnerable infant without any publicity?

There is cctv everywhere. They could have informed 1000's of professionals, police, door security, hotels, taxi companies, the public announced drove the couple further underground. IMO.

They could have informed 1000's of professionals, police, door security, hotels, taxi companies

How do you suggest they should have informed all those thousands of hotels, taxi companies etc? Sat down with a phone book and contacted all of them individually? How long do you think that would have taken? And how long before the story leaked out anyway?

This is a long article from the Guardian written by a journalist who attended the trial. it is a very interesting and balanced piece of reporting which details how they both tried to derail and delay the trial as well as shining a light on their co-dependant, damaged and damaging relationship. Well worth a read https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/jul/15/inside-the-trial-of-constance-marten-and-mark-gordon?CMP=share_btn_url

Live CCTV footage is often not being monitored by anyone and it can't be used in a way that is just a fishing expedition i.e saving footage for the police that may but more likely may not have these two appear on it.

The answers aren't clear, however I do think that they were stupid enough to stay in public view had they not been notified by the media.

@lifeonmars100 This is one of the best pieces I've read about the case and like you said, illustrates perfectly how delusional and impenetrable the couple's world view was.
I'm still haunted by the CCTV of Marten roughly handling Victoria into her buggy, clothed in just a thin babygrow.

Their relationship reminds me of the Ben Butler/Jenny Gray case. Butler murdered their daughter Ellie and Gray stood by him right through the trial and I believe after he had been jailed for life.

Thanks for clarification, but it still doesn’t make sense to me that something judged as being a fact, is actually not always a fact. It does muddy the waters. In effect, a judge in civil proceedings is stating ‘this is a fact’, when considering whether CM was thrown out of a window by MG, and this must be accepted by everyone, whereas a judge in a criminal case dealing with the same set of circumstances would be advising that it has not been proven that he threw her out of a window, and therefore it is not a fact. Seems contradictory…

No I think she chose him over her children. 4 children taken away and then not caring for her new born. That's on her and him not the police .

It's excellent isn't it? The author's calm retelling of what she witnessed at the trial is such a contrast to the foaming at the mouth coverage in other parts of the media. She asks what many of us want to know, namely "why"? She demonstrates how nebulous and dangerous their shared reality was and in poor Victoria's case deadly. There is no clear cut answer to "why" which makes it even more disturbing. I remember the Ellie Gray case, truly horrific.

Same here - that footage of them with Victoria is just heartbreaking to see - how carelessly CM handles her 😥and yes, I've had the Ellie Butler case in my head too - again, that poor, poor child - her own mother putting a relationship, with an abuser (ultimately a murderer) before everything. Heartbreaking.

Yes, the footage of them putting little Victoria in the buggy was horrendous. She was what... a week old? Having had a baby GC this year, I know you treat them all like a piece of fragile and precious china, not just dump them in a buggy like they are 6 months old.