Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

[Siff]

I know Constance Marten and her partner made dangerous and illegal choices, and I’m not excusing that — a baby died and that’s heartbreaking. But I can’t stop thinking about the way the case was handled and whether the police have some responsibility in how things unfolded.

As a mum of four who’s struggled mentally after birth, I keep thinking: if I had just given birth, was vulnerable, and felt like the whole world was hunting me down — would I have thought clearly? Probably not. The media coverage was intense, and the police were everywhere. The pressure must have been overwhelming.

I honestly believe the fear created by the police operation pushed them into making more and more desperate and risky decisions to stay hidden. It wasn’t just a search — it felt like a witch hunt. No safeguarding, no attempt to reach her as a vulnerable mother, just a hard push to capture and punish.

I think that approach had consequences. The police must take some responsibility for creating the kind of fear and pressure that led to this tragedy. The way they went about it likely made things worse — not better — for the baby.

It’s easy to say she was selfish or unstable, but mental health in the postnatal period is fragile. People don’t always think rationally when terrified. I just wish there had been more humanity in how it was all handled.
Anyone else feel the same?

And can you imagine the nightmare they would both be to manage in prison? I bet they are causing chaos. I feel so sorry for anyone whose job requires them to work with either of them.

If they'd been spotted by a member of the public earlier the baby could have been saved.

They were spotted by members of the public. Reports during the trial included CM's testimony that people approached them and asked if they were 'that couple'. That's how they knew they were the centre of a national news story.

But the public being the public, and anti-police sentiment, or seeing the police search as unjust against a woman who had done nothing wrong, just given birth under the radar....did nothing.

Until the people in Brighton.

When it was too late.

I hope those who can’t be bothered to read the reports and are bleating on about adoption, pleas at least note that Marten and Gordon repeatedly failed to attend contact sessions with their four children who were fostered. They missed 19 and then stopped attending altogether. The children would cry, one said “Mummy and daddy. Cancelled again.”

@Ted27 I think we both know that after a couple of hours access to some child protection records, those on this thread who are sympathetic to the parents of Victoria would be shouting to have the children they read about removed immediately.

Again, it is very difficult and sometimes dangerously tardy for ss/ courts (uk) to arrive at the decision to remove a child at risk.

Precisely. The footage of the so called father asking for food and commentating on the quality of the chips while the poor police officer begs him to say where the baby is says it all. They did what they did and that is why the baby died.

Hopefully they will stop having children now

Hopefully she'll be banged up long enough that by the time she gets out she'll be too old to have any more children.

Will be interesting to see what sentences they each get and to hear the judge's remarks. Having seen all the evidence, and their behaviour in court, he will be best placed to decide if one of them is more culpable than the other.

CM was offered help and support - mother and baby placements, for example - but you can't force someone to engage.

Separation is the best thing for them. It’s a shame it took the death of a tiny baby to bring about the change.

Let’s be clear, it’s the prison system that brought about their separation. The loss of 4 previous children didn’t do it, the death of this little one didn’t do it. Bringing them to justice is what will keep them apart, and rightly so.

If they were out in the community they’d still be together.

No one knew she was pregnant in December 2022 though so they couldn’t have issued this alert.

The first time the 5th pregnancy came to light was in January 2023 after she’d already given birth when their car caught fire on the motorway and a placenta was found on the back seat.

siff - i find it hard to understand why 'the whole system let them down' ,to me the whole system has taken those 4 previous children away from god knows what abuse and given them a chance.
Pancakesandcream- read everything ,both parents offered to have the children,but the mother withdrew offer when the facts of how dangerous he was/is was made clear.
This couple alone are the ones who are soley responsible for the chaos and destruction.
I do feel there are elements of 'romanticism' in this sorry story ,a beautiful trust fund free spirit aristocrat and a doomed love when the truth is actually abhorrent and sordid.
If this were a couple similar to baby p's mother and lover then i think there may be a bit less empathy.

All adoptions (well the vast majority) have letter box contact set out, many also have direct contact. Perhaps you didnt know this

Forced adoption meaning the court dispenses with their consent is of course necessary if the child cannot be cared for by the family and the parents refuse to agree an adoption, what do you think should happen? The child languish in foster care for 18 years?

You say you understand that the police had to act quickly. But you don't. Both of these two made decisions and acted in ways as if they were above the law. I've read nothing to suggest they prioritised their children above themselves. This was a life or death situation, urgent, because of them.

You are actually parroting what Constance says, it's just justification and not accepting responsibility for their own actions.

It starts and ends with them. You blaming the police and whoever else is misguided and frankly an insult to Victoria, the other children and all the professionals that have had to deal with the horror of the situation.

I know a lot about adoption - and letter box contact is not contact. In fact it is set up in a way that aggrieved everyone: birth parents, adopted child and adoptive parents. It's heavily restricted (borderline scripted) and hardly ever works. What's more, it doesn't allow any direct communication at all between adoptee and adopted.

As for what should happen... pretty much what every other country in the world does. Allow for open adoption where the birth parent continues to see their child, and /or privilege long term foster placements.

You blaming the police and whoever else is misguided and frankly an insult to Victoria, the other children and all the professionals that have had to deal with the horror of the situation.

I would go further. It's frankly an insult to anyone with common sense and even a basic level of decency. I thought people like CM and Gordon were outliers. But they way some people are on this thread has got me thinking!😳

We should also stop referring to them as Constance and Mark, like they are neighbours who got into a bit of bother.

It's Victoria we should give the dignity of her name to

Face to face contact is now expected to be the default unless there are risks associated with it that cannot be mitigated
and long term foster care is not in the interests of children.

They were living in a tent when the first child was born. The police didn't cause this, the child killers did.

Adopter here. My daughter wants nothing to do with the birth parents who neglected her. She is an adult now, we have tried our hardest to get her to understand the complexities involved in her birth family and she is utterly furious with us if we try to mention them.

It is beyond ridiculous to expect abused and neglected children to keep having contact with these people.

Do you have any idea what it is like to parent a child who nearly started to death? Who has attachment disorder because she was never cared for? Who panics at everything because life was so scary?

And she was only 6 months when she was removed.

I am so furious, I am beyond understanding why you think these birth parents should have ongoing contact.

Direct contact should be given consideration but it’s not the default, letter box is still the default. Direct contact doesn’t work for many children who can be deeply distressed before and after - any decision needs to centre the children rather than the adults involved.

Long term foster placements can be good for children who really struggle with the idea of permanence but adoption takes the child completely out of the care system, which is a good thing.

It certainly works well in lots of cases, sometimes children dont want to engage, sometimes their birth parents dont want to engage

I havent worked on any adoption plans in the last couple of years at least that dont have direct contact built into them, so you're wrong again. Of course its up to adopters what they choose to do after that.

No one should be suggesting long term foster care for very young children unless there are exceptional circumstances that require this for the child, most adoptions are for under 5s, a child should have legal permanency not be a child in care for at least 13 years.

Clearly you don't because children in long term foster care have the worst outcomes of any children. Why do you think the wants of adults who have been proven to be unable to care fora child should come above the best interests of the child?

If birth parents are safe to have ongoing contact a court can order it. It's unlikely to happen because if birth parents were safe enough to do that, the child wouldn't need to be adopted at all.

Adoption in the UK is set up to provide families for children who need them. In many other countries it's set up to provide children for adults who want them. The differences make sense when you understand that the starting point of what adoption is for, is different in other countries. In the UK, an adoption order can only be made if nothing else will do to keep a child safe. It's an extremely high bar.

Agreed, except that there are lots of parents of adopted children who are 'safe enough' to have direct contact with after adoption, they just dont know how to parent them, they are inept and incapable parents rather than dangerous risky parents as such

Just by coincidence most adoptions plans for me in recent years have been such parents therefore plans have involved direct contact, no contact order has been necessary.

In other cases direct contact may not be appropriate, it solely depends on the child's needs and circumstances.

I find it odd that none of her family wanted her children - I wonder if her parents had any role in how she turned out.

That's a particularly depressing aspect to this story. The number of people who looked the other way, 'nothing to do with me' attitude. From the man who witnessed the car fire on the motorway , touched the baby's head and said she was cold but drove off anyway, to the various taxi drivers, hotel staff, people walking on the Downs who'd seen the tent in January fgs.

Thankfully there was one person with a moral compass in Brighton.

Some people are utter idiots. Try not to let them infuriate you ❤️