Rethinking decline: why blaming migrants might miss the point

[Hearingelem]

Hi all,
I've been mulling over some unsettling trends in the UK and wanted to hear your thoughts—particularly those of us noticing fewer kids around and schools closing.
First, I’m not blaming migrants—they’re filling gaps we’ve created. But it hit me: if people who’ve lived here for generations aren’t having children, who is keeping our society going? It’s like watching your family line slowly fade.
Here’s the gist:

• Fewer families are having children, or delaying them until their 30s or beyond.
• Abortions are up—almost 30% of pregnancies end in abortion now.
• Primary schools are shutting or merging due to low pupil numbers.
• Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of migrants are arriving each year, and tens of thousands of British-born people are leaving.

It got me thinking: if we plant seeds everywhere but only the ones in the right environment grow, shouldn’t we rethink that environment—rather than blaming the plants? 🚨 Shocking stats at a glance:

• 29.7% of all conceptions in England & Wales ended in legal abortion in 2022—nearly 3 in 10 pregnancies—and up from 20.8% in 2012 (Sky News, The Guardian, Office for National Statistics).
• That’s 247,703 conceptions aborted in 2022—a 13% increase from 2021 (Office for National Statistics).
• Migrant inflows: ~1.2 million long-term arrivals in year to June 2024; 728,000 net migration (arrivals minus departures) (Full Fact).
• Emigration: 479,000 people left in that same period—including a sizeable number of British nationals (Full Fact).

I’m not here to stir division. I want people—especially those quick to blame migrants—to look in the mirror: if our birth environment is failing us, aren't we partly responsible? Let’s talk solutions: Affordable housing, gig‑free childcare, pay transparency, flexible working, serious sex-ed and contraception access… what would help you feel like having kids here and now? Curious to hear your views—especially if this hits home for you. Sources: ONS conception stats (2022) & abortion trends: [ONS Conception Bulletin] ONS net migration & emigration data: [ONS Immigration Statistics]

Nah, making people work is cruel, innit? The magic money tree is shedding £ notes apparently.

I give up. You obviously have nothing to back up your musings.

Yes, the decline in births is a problem of the environment. Which is one reason that migrants won't really fix it, they come into the same environment and in a generation will have the same responses.

I think the major complication is that governments have little capacity to affect many of the wider problems, because globalism means they can't do much about their local economy. Their tools are very limited.

Why does society need to be kept going? I can't think of any good it's doing, to other people or to the rest of the planet.

Are you offering to go?

When older of course

When people talk about ‘net contributors’ does that include takes like taxes like employers NI, corporation tax, inheritance tax, VAT? Or just income tax and employee NI?

Have to agree with this. Our local hospital is treating a rising number elderly Nigerians for prostate cancer as they’ve been brought over as parents of migrants. On top of the costs of treatment, there’s also interpreter costs (£30 an hour, more than most nurses). This is just one example.

Of course it’s difficult to be “against” this on a human level, but they’ve contributed nothing to the economy. I’m sick of my taxes constantly rising and not seeing any direct improvements in services.

The parents have probably only come to the UK specifically for the NHS treatment too. Health tourism is a massive issue and drain no wonder certain procedures are no longer done on the NHS for British citizens due to cost or huge wait lists as the money is going to treat citizens of other countries it may aswell be called the world health service.
Ive had quite a few friends now going private and in debt for procedures out of sheer desperation, these friends have always worked and contributed to the NHS through NI payments.
one friend was told she'd have to wait atleast 2 years for just the consultation for a bladder/womb prolapse, she was suffering and could not wait that long so paid a few thousand for private treatment.
meanwhile new migrants who have contributed nothing get free treatment plus the extra drain for interpreters.

Some people do this, but leaving family would be difficult for many.

I saw a costing once that said that it would be cheaper to house the elderly on cruse ships rather than in long term facilities. That would be an interesting experiment.

Can someone confirm if this true? The recent Pension contributions gap that went back as far as 2005? was available to top up to anyone who had worked here at least 3 years? So they could add the rest as voluntary contributions? Most countries require 5 or usually a minimum of 10 yrs work contributions to then be able to add voluntary ones. I can’t see how there will be money for this in 20 yrs time.

also, I would dearly have loved to had have children - I just couldn’t get a job/housing and partner in order to be in a position where it could happen - it does seem very cruel that we go to university to do jobs like teaching, etc, graduate with debts and then can’t get it all to come together within the narrow window we have. Sadly I had an accident and have really struggled to get back in secure housing, a new job I can do and now have to start to plan to have some financial security for the future.

In 2015 a Muslim commentator claimed that 40-50 urban Labour seats were controlled by their bloc vote.

Hopefully the Jezbollah party can nab a lot of those. Jess Phillips'?

A single 'Muslim commentator' - it must be true!

Yet in the town I live the schools are full and if someone moves in then it's difficult to get a lace

IKR!

Interestingly on another thread, Consultant doctors are discussing how international medical graduates are frequently more qualified than British medical graduates for advertised posts. The fact that IMGs compete successfully for so many of these posts may be partly responsible for the career stresses of early stage resident doctors.

Or not, it is hard for an outsider to assess. I have mixed feelings, but that is to do with pathways here rather than the IMGs themselves.

In any case, this large cohort of IMGs are providing us with excellent medical care at very reasonable salaries. Unqualified? Net takers? I don’t think so.

The same can be said of the many international scientists and engineers who have won open competitions for employment across various sectors in the UK.