When ‘tradition’ becomes a clear display of hatred

[WhereIsMyJumper]

Am I being unreasonable to be aghast at the bonfires in NI? Burning the tri-colour as well as an effigy of a migrant boat. How can this be referred to as ‘tradition’??

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/firefighters-take-two-hours-to-extinguish-controversial-bonfire-topped-with-migrant-boat-and-irish-flag-in-co-tyrone/a1274789953.html

They’re annoyed. Not racist.

Legal protest against injustice has to be allowed. As does insulting people.

I condemn the placing of flags and effigies on bonfires. But realistically the Eleventh Night is very difficult for the authorities to police, as trying to dismantle bonfires could lead to weeks of rioting, violence, personal threats, intimidation etc. Northern Ireland is really not like other parts of the UK because there are certain communities that are essentially controlled by paramilitaries, and the police and politicians have little sway there.

Quite a few of them are racist.

“The only good one is a dead one” on that kneecap/‘destroy Irish republicans’ banner?

wow

Really arent they?

A pregnant woman was just murdered by a white man, funny I must have missed the smashing up of houses of everyone connected to him, or of men who happened to look similar to him. The riots in the street.

Those videos must not have made it on to Tik Tok yet.

And considering the history of NI & the scenes witnessed over the years around the 12th I would say they very are much racist.

Please don't suggest that there is an equivalent nationalist event to the 12th. There isn't. In the 80s when nationalists were looking to make their feelings known in a more outward way they created the West Belfast festival. Music & dance & arts. It's not always been perfect but it's international & it aims to be inclusive. Every single year the loyalists burn images of the Pope, NI Catholics, ROI Catholics, their own young get burned & disabled & killed falling off bonfires & they so enormous damage to people's home & livelihoods. There is a serious issue here & it's one side of the community causing it all..

I’m neutral but it’s not all one-sided. Far from it.

I respectfully suggest that posters start reading the Irish Times. Follow them on Facebook, see what their government is and isn't doing. What is happening there daily. Read the comments on the articles.

It really isn't leprechauns and pots of gold just now

@Citylady88 Oh no, I wasn’t suggesting that Nationalists had an equivalent to the 12th.
Just an observation after travelling from the Shankhill to the Falls. As a Brit (and where you see on here people being aghast at one neighbour putting up a banner of their chosen political party) it was something I wasn’t used to seeing.

Again, only based on very limited personal experience - I’ve spent time in ROI and only a few days in Belfast and have never been anywhere more ‘Irish’ than the Falls and never been anywhere more ‘British’ than the Shankhill. It felt to me, like a tinder box. Which is another reason I can’t believe that the marches and bonfires are allowed to go ahead each year. But then, what do I know.

The Irish Times is based in the Republic and reports mostly from that perspective. These bonfires occur in Northern Ireland. They are two completely separate governments. The people building these bonfires identify as British and despise anything Irish, that's the whole point of this "celebration".

Have you felt the same about the effigies of the pope or of various nationalist and Irish politicians that have been burned on a regular basis over the years?

This disgusting behaviour is nothing new. They've just added a new target for their hatred to the bonfires this year.

Correct.

Unlikely he'll condemn it. It's only Taigs they're inciting violence against.

Disgusting.
I'm starting to wonder though if the hatred towards immigrants is actually reaching them before they enter Europe or, at least before they try for Britain. These people often say that they're scared for their lives elsewhere but it's not as if they're getting a safe reception here. I mean, hotels were set alight last year. Why would you want to come? Why would you risk your life to do so? I know, I know people will say benefits and that they speak English etc, I just can't see that being such a draw. Perhaps it needs spelling out to them before they embark on what is often a perilous journey, that they're likely to be holed up in a room for years, with no chance of a job, a small pittance to live off as well as being scorned by the people around you.

In the meantime the government need to make safe passages for people genuinely fleeing warzones where the above would actually be preferable to a genuine cause.

I don't say this with hate, I'm not white myself and I'm aware of how difficult things can be even for a British national who doesn't look "traditional". Perhaps that's why I don't understand it even more. Life would be pretty difficult here for them and many other neighbouring countries. I don't think I've ever known such hate and I'm nearly 40.

There is a lot of anger in NI at the moment due to the rape of 13 year old local children by Romanian immigrants. The tri colour has always been burnt on bonfires. Just as catholic bonfires burn Union Jacks and celebrated when Queen Elizabeth died.
It’s still a complicated and divided society, and it’s easy to take things as face value and call us thick or racists but outsiders don’t understand the complexities of the country.

Orangeman’s day is a horrible show of hate in Ireland. They used to burn an effigy of the Pope. Bonfire night in England would burn catholic effigies aswell like Guy Fawkes and again the Pope. In Lewes to this day every year celebrants at Bonfire night chant and carry through the streets burning crosses and an effigy of the Pope to throw on the fire. Yes. Still!

But why not burn the old Irish flag. Why the tri colour . Does no one understand the meaning behind the tricolour. Is the irony completely lost on them

Right. And what about all the other bonfires that burn effigies of the pope and of Irish and nationalist politicians? They don't tend to get condemned by very many of a unionist persuasion.

HAHAHAHA
Can I get a lift? I’ll bring the popcorn.

Oh give over.🙄

There is a lot of hatred in NI at the moment. Hatred against Catholics. Hatred against immigrants. Hatred against minorities.

Hatred so powerful the haters will put themselves and their children at risk.

It has covered the bonfire.

so why did they go to trouble of painting them black? Cop on.

The bonfires on Orangeman’s day are in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the U.K. It has nothing to do with The Irish Times based in Dublin.

Thanks for replying. I'd say the only thing more British than the Shankill ive seen is Gibraltar. It's quite the thing to see! You must spend a bit more time on the West coast of Ireland & that feels just as Irish as the Falls.

I do understand that it's different in Ireland as it is in Wales and Scotland. I think it's difficult for outsiders to appreciate though. Let's be honest it's not all good, but at times I look across the border to England totally baffled at what has become of it. There's something to be said for national identity.