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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

When ‘tradition’ becomes a clear display of hatred

425 replies

WhereIsMyJumper · 11/07/2025 14:52

Am I being unreasonable to be aghast at the bonfires in NI? Burning the tri-colour as well as an effigy of a migrant boat. How can this be referred to as ‘tradition’??

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/firefighters-take-two-hours-to-extinguish-controversial-bonfire-topped-with-migrant-boat-and-irish-flag-in-co-tyrone/a1274789953.html

Firefighters take two hours to extinguish controversial bonfire topped with ‘migrant boat’ and Irish flag in Co Tyrone

Firefighters took almost two hours to extinguish a controversial bonfire which was lit in Co Tyrone last night.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/firefighters-take-two-hours-to-extinguish-controversial-bonfire-topped-with-migrant-boat-and-irish-flag-in-co-tyrone/a1274789953.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
MathNotMathing · 12/07/2025 07:17

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Puppalicious · 12/07/2025 07:18

Notsosure1 · 12/07/2025 03:54

I think it’s really interesting (fucking annoying) that countries like Ireland seemingly ‘get away with’ blatant racism and xenophobia yet maintain their overall positive image, when places like England (usually referred to as Britain, but we know they mean England) has a deep-seated, never to be eradicated image of racial bigotry and mistreatment, despite only recently settling the debt they owed for their role in abolishing slavery (which was still rife around the world).

Yes there is a history of at times brutal colonisation - which was similar to many other countries practise - that’s obviously not an excuse for it taking place, but I think because GB (England) was so successful compared to other countries, and comparatively so small in size, it fed a resentment among even the countries who participated themselves!

Australia is another prime example - their record for the despicable way they treat people trying to migrate there is infamous, but there aren’t many people who would sneer at the country in the same way they do England. They, like Ireland, and several countries in Eastern Europe, aren’t considered a racist country in the same way, despite their current policies.

The irony is, that for such a racist country, it still appears to be one of the top destinations for migrants and asylum seekers. I’ve read many accounts from POC who have lived in numerous countries around the world who consider the U.K. to be the best to move to for non-white people.

I read an article months ago about demonstrations taking place outside buildings used to house asylum seekers in Ireland and the reporter had the nerve to explain it as locals ‘fearing a change to their traditions’- I mean WTAF???!!! Can you imagine how that would fly if it was said by someone in Manchester, Birmingham, Leicester, or conversely, the mainly white, middle-class areas down south?!

I remember all the anger surrounding Brexit and the distancing from ‘racist’ Britain and being promoted as more liberal and welcoming to migrants - until they actually started to arrive.

I doubt Ireland’s reputation will be at all tarnished by what is currently going on, because, like Australia, people around the world prefer to think of it as a welcoming, liberal (twee) place, far removed from the uptight, class-bound, racist cesspit that is and was Britain (England).

Does my head in, sorry.

Good god, another person who knows nothing about NI (nor has read the thread). These people would probably want your effigy on the bonfire if you called them Irish. They are British. It is usually Irish flags and references to catholic/Irish people they are putting on these bonfires.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/07/2025 07:27

RubyHiker · 12/07/2025 01:39

"I'm not from NI"
Clearly but sure you took a black cab taxi tour once so your deeply interested in our "culture"
Are you English Op? Don't you guys still burn guy fawkes effeiegies?
Maybe less of the faux outrage about a country you don't understand.
It's fucking stupid but your hands are hardly clean enough to popping off about it

You’d be pissed off at me for not bothering to learn anything at all about it so I guess I can’t win, right 🙄

OP posts:
Brendahollowayreconsider · 12/07/2025 07:32

A 90s Scottish comedy show called Naked video do an ace sketch about Scottish orange band.
Paul Simons agent..it's on YouTube.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/07/2025 07:37

@RubyHiker if you’d bother to read any of my posts, you’ll see that they’re full of ‘I’m not an expert’ type comments. I haven’t pretended to know as much about it as people actually from NI nor was I ever personally complicit in the systematic oppression of Irish Catholics so, quite frankly, you can fuck right off.

OP posts:
CaptainMyCaptain · 12/07/2025 07:46

Taytoface · 11/07/2025 22:43

Exactly. Now you find your outrage?? Fine for Catholics to be burnt in effigy, not a fucking murmur about that. For DECADES. Fuck the fuck off.

People are responding to a post on Mumsnet. It doesn't mean they all thought it was OK before. Personally I don't celebrate November 5th snd I think the parades in Lewes, Sussex are also awful with burning effigies although most people seem to think that's OK (different demographic I suppose).

AnSolas · 12/07/2025 08:13

Notsosure1 · 12/07/2025 03:54

I think it’s really interesting (fucking annoying) that countries like Ireland seemingly ‘get away with’ blatant racism and xenophobia yet maintain their overall positive image, when places like England (usually referred to as Britain, but we know they mean England) has a deep-seated, never to be eradicated image of racial bigotry and mistreatment, despite only recently settling the debt they owed for their role in abolishing slavery (which was still rife around the world).

Yes there is a history of at times brutal colonisation - which was similar to many other countries practise - that’s obviously not an excuse for it taking place, but I think because GB (England) was so successful compared to other countries, and comparatively so small in size, it fed a resentment among even the countries who participated themselves!

Australia is another prime example - their record for the despicable way they treat people trying to migrate there is infamous, but there aren’t many people who would sneer at the country in the same way they do England. They, like Ireland, and several countries in Eastern Europe, aren’t considered a racist country in the same way, despite their current policies.

The irony is, that for such a racist country, it still appears to be one of the top destinations for migrants and asylum seekers. I’ve read many accounts from POC who have lived in numerous countries around the world who consider the U.K. to be the best to move to for non-white people.

I read an article months ago about demonstrations taking place outside buildings used to house asylum seekers in Ireland and the reporter had the nerve to explain it as locals ‘fearing a change to their traditions’- I mean WTAF???!!! Can you imagine how that would fly if it was said by someone in Manchester, Birmingham, Leicester, or conversely, the mainly white, middle-class areas down south?!

I remember all the anger surrounding Brexit and the distancing from ‘racist’ Britain and being promoted as more liberal and welcoming to migrants - until they actually started to arrive.

I doubt Ireland’s reputation will be at all tarnished by what is currently going on, because, like Australia, people around the world prefer to think of it as a welcoming, liberal (twee) place, far removed from the uptight, class-bound, racist cesspit that is and was Britain (England).

Does my head in, sorry.

😬😬😬😬

🤪

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Loook at a foookn map before spouting off about a history of at times brutal colonisation.

And Oz 🤨🤨 give your head a wobble.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/07/2025 08:32

Madcatdudette · 12/07/2025 02:15

Lots of people in England are cheering NI on.
They all agree with stopping this influx.

Lots of people aren't cheering on riots and burning effigies of asylum seekers.

OneLuckyBee · 12/07/2025 08:52

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/07/2025 08:32

Lots of people aren't cheering on riots and burning effigies of asylum seekers.

What about participating in riots and trying to burn hotels housing asylum seekers?

CaptainMyCaptain · 12/07/2025 08:53

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/07/2025 08:32

Lots of people aren't cheering on riots and burning effigies of asylum seekers.

I'm certainly not and neither is anyone I know.

CaptainMyCaptain · 12/07/2025 08:54

OneLuckyBee · 12/07/2025 08:52

What about participating in riots and trying to burn hotels housing asylum seekers?

A tiny minority have done this and they deserve the jail sentences they have received.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/07/2025 08:55

OneLuckyBee · 12/07/2025 08:52

What about participating in riots and trying to burn hotels housing asylum seekers?

Lots of people aren't supportive of that either.

Wibble128 · 12/07/2025 09:00

We still burn the image of a Catholic on the 5th November. Get over it.

OneLuckyBee · 12/07/2025 09:02

MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/07/2025 08:55

Lots of people aren't supportive of that either.

So pretty much the same situation in England as in NI.

CaptainMyCaptain · 12/07/2025 09:03

Wibble128 · 12/07/2025 09:00

We still burn the image of a Catholic on the 5th November. Get over it.

Not all of us.

CaptainMyCaptain · 12/07/2025 09:04

OneLuckyBee · 12/07/2025 09:02

So pretty much the same situation in England as in NI.

It's just as bad when it happens in England or anywhere else but it isn't described as 'tradition' which is the point made in the thread title.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/07/2025 09:16

CaptainMyCaptain · 12/07/2025 09:03

Not all of us.

Second this, I haven’t seen a Guy on a bonfire on 5th November since I was a small child. You can’t really compare the two IMO

OP posts:
MiloMinderbinder925 · 12/07/2025 09:19

OneLuckyBee · 12/07/2025 09:02

So pretty much the same situation in England as in NI.

That there were racist riots? Yes, that's the case.

Luckyingame · 12/07/2025 09:36

Where is the poll?
Hatred?
This country is on its knees, as many say.
Why is that, OP?

OhMaria2 · 12/07/2025 09:44

WhereIsMyJumper · 11/07/2025 16:41

I hope this incident gets investigated properly. It’s one thing to imprison people for posting things on Facebook but to me, this is a whole other level!

I thought that when I saw this. Is this not a whole step further than than? Burning effigies a few weeks after setting fire to people's houses and the leisure centre that they went to hide in?
Is the government allowing this sort of thing to remind people it has a mob it can wield or something?

GrammarTeacher · 12/07/2025 09:45

Kumquatzest · 12/07/2025 00:05

I condemn the placing of flags and effigies on bonfires. But realistically the Eleventh Night is very difficult for the authorities to police, as trying to dismantle bonfires could lead to weeks of rioting, violence, personal threats, intimidation etc. Northern Ireland is really not like other parts of the UK because there are certain communities that are essentially controlled by paramilitaries, and the police and politicians have little sway there.

Then this should be addressed not enabled.

Fearfulsaints · 12/07/2025 09:47

I was thinking about my local English village bonfire night when I saw this. They do burn a 'guy' but it hasn't represented Guido fawkes for a very long time. Its normally a competition and its generally effigies of politicians people don't like. We get a Trump, Putin, a Korean dictator, a random film baddie and a lettuce for instance.

It is a bit odd really.

I think the boat people is upsetting because the people in the boats are normal people and they risk thier lives on the boat and the hotels they live in have been set on fire during riots. It moves from political jest to threat.

WhereIsMyJumper · 12/07/2025 09:48

Luckyingame · 12/07/2025 09:36

Where is the poll?
Hatred?
This country is on its knees, as many say.
Why is that, OP?

I don’t usually add in a poll because it’s pointless when people come and vote and don’t bother to post their POV.

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. It’s possible to want both immigration to be controlled AND think it’s disgusting that people are burning effigies of brown people in boats.
There’s a huge range of opinion between “let everyone in who wants to come in” and “let’s set fire to them”

OP posts:
WhereIsMyJumper · 12/07/2025 09:50

I also object people using the rape/attempted rape of women and girls to protest against immigration.

Why aren’t they rioting every time a woman gets attacked by a man? Probably because they’d never get anything done.

OP posts:
GrammarTeacher · 12/07/2025 09:52

Wibble128 · 12/07/2025 09:00

We still burn the image of a Catholic on the 5th November. Get over it.

You might. But there is a huge moral difference between burning an effigy of someone who is already dead and targeting people who are alive.