When ‘tradition’ becomes a clear display of hatred

[WhereIsMyJumper]

Am I being unreasonable to be aghast at the bonfires in NI? Burning the tri-colour as well as an effigy of a migrant boat. How can this be referred to as ‘tradition’??

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/firefighters-take-two-hours-to-extinguish-controversial-bonfire-topped-with-migrant-boat-and-irish-flag-in-co-tyrone/a1274789953.html

It’s no different. Guy Fawkes symbolises Catholicism and if you’re Catholic that’s exactly how you see it. It’s hate

Oh I'm all too aware. A protestant friend (loyalism in his family) told me with great glee about all the RTE aerials that would pop up on the roofs of houses (probably back in the 80s) in protestant areas once they found out you could get so much more football, including live matches and Scottish League - meaning Rangers games.

Re reunification, I think a huge influence would be the state of the NHS at the time of a vote (which reinforced to me that the Torys didn't give a fuck about the 'Union' including NI), the education system and, yes, taxes. The Celtic Tiger has buggered off to pastures new, and the COL in the South is high.
I think the appetite for a United Ireland has waned. I think a vote would go the same way as the Scottish vote for independence. Better the devil you know, and people know the devil here.
However, if people here did vote for reunification, I think there'd be civil war, not just civil unrest. People would die, and I'm not being melodramatic.
We know how much capacity there is here for violence at the drop of a hat.

Well that’s bloody awful, too.

Celebrating NI protests against mass influx of young fighting age men.
Effigy burning has got English people standing with NI.

It is. The local council advertise day trips and extra parking. Honestly. You couldn’t make it up it’s disgusting.

You really have no idea.🙄 They've been having this celebration of hate for 100s of years.

I would argue that illegal immigration has had a much less obvious or troubling impact on Northern Ireland than the state sponsored settlement of people that came earlier.

Illegal immigrants are usually people fleeing from a desperate situation. What would you do in their shoes? You cannot seriously condone burning an effigy of people risking their lives to give themselves some sort of chance. It makes my stomach churn.

12th July is an anti immigration March now? Oh the irony.

And that's one reason I don't like it but nobody is going to be incited to actually harm GF because he died years ago. People are being incited to cause harm to asylum seekers in NI and in England and it's a crime in both places.

Between me and you these people are not very bright…

Is it? Tell that to some Catholics. I don’t think I have met a Catholic who is not a 5/11 hater.
I appreciate that effigy burning might not be your idea of a peaceful protest but many people don’t see it as abhorrent

Yes, to me it is equivalent to that Grenfell model.

And the whole matter of celebrating the Boyne victory on the 12th is bizarre. It happened on 1 July 1690 so must have been moved 11 days on due to the calendar change in the 18th century when 11 days were missed out in the shift to the European calendar. But we didn’t move 5 November commemoration to the 16th. The whole thing is very strange.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there !

It's a specific pope that was in place during the gun powder plot who oversaw the burning of some protestant martyrs in that town around the time of guy fawkes (plus guy fawkes) the crosses are the 17 burning protestant martyrs.

Ive never been to lewes even though its close, as we are catholic and it feels a bit much, but we do go to our village bonfire as it really doesn't feel wrong. It is what happened and the protestants won.

What? So English people can’t agree with NI because historically they ‘hate’ each other?
They can’t agree with NI because they want to send them back to Scotland and England?

They throw effigies of the Pope too. It symbolises and encourages hate. Whatever it is.

No it hasn't, just a few prats.

Okay, why don’t you explain why I have no idea?

I’m aware of the history of hundreds of years ago. Catholic’s and Protestants were all killed for their religions. Time to stop the hate. Lewes council are a disgrace to allow it

Ah so you are calling people prats. Why do you think they are prats?

I can't make head nor tail of your posts. Nothing above makes sense in relation to this thread or the broader politics of Northern Ireland.

I’m an atheist, don’t really understand religion at all but I thought God was supposed to be about peace and love.

That’s shocking.

Because they are sowing hatred and division following race riots.

I'm much more optimistic than you, in the event of vote in support of a UI it would be because those in the middle had been persuaded that they have a better future in a new Ireland. Loyalist paramilitaries will be more concerned about continuing with organised crime and making money and there is no reason to believe that would be tackled any more effectively than it is now. They could also get the hand in for millions more of funding to 'transition' and help their community come to terms with the new constitutional situation.

Because it’s nothing to do with religion or broader political views. That’s the point, you’re bringing religion and historical context into it when it’s really not the point.
NI don’t want the influx of undocumented males, neither do people in England.