When ‘tradition’ becomes a clear display of hatred

[WhereIsMyJumper]

Am I being unreasonable to be aghast at the bonfires in NI? Burning the tri-colour as well as an effigy of a migrant boat. How can this be referred to as ‘tradition’??

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/firefighters-take-two-hours-to-extinguish-controversial-bonfire-topped-with-migrant-boat-and-irish-flag-in-co-tyrone/a1274789953.html

So how.do you say spaghetti in Italian?

The IFA was established before Northern Ireland was.

I made one point, that those boys and young men would not call themselves Irish. That's my opinion.
I can say with confidence that none of the loyalists, male or female, that I know would call themselves Irish in a million years.
They would never get an Irish passport, even though they can, despite it being such a good passport to travel on.
There is such fear of their heritage and identity being eroded. That's part of the reason why some in communities such as in the Village resist change and resent 'outsiders' moving in. I was living in the Village before, during and after the redevelopment (which happened about 15 years ago). There was a poll done. Some residents (albeit a small number) didn't want redevelopment to happen at all, despite some houses still having outdoor toilets, and many more being damp and derelict etc. They wanted to keep their enclave/stronghold.
I think many others saw, and still see it as a loyalist ghetto. But, the paramilitaries need to ensure future recruitment, so change is not encouraged, education up and out is not encouraged.
I know many families there, and the vast majority that I've met are, of course, decent and forward thinking. I know a mum, whole family for generations born and raised in the Village/Sandy Row, whose daughter plays football. I see her out training in her NI/IFA top. Her mum has started her gaelic football training to improve her speed, skills & fitness after seeing a wee GAA team train. She says some of her neighbours have given her a bit of grief, but she doesn't give a flying fuck.

FWIW, I was a huge admirer of David Ervine. His loyalist credentials, his political clout, his intelligence and his forward thinking were some combination.
I remember him once saying (in an interview, possibly) 'why shouldn't I call myself Irish?'
He challenged deeply established thinking & was a huge loss here.

Of course the whole thing is all so much more complicated and nuanced than can be conveyed in a few posts here. I'm not as green as my heritage naive.

I don't because I don't speak Italian 😁

Dunno where you live but I can tell you that there are lots of people cheering effigy burning.
It’s an annual thing in England so why would anyone be so offended by Ireland protesting with a bonfire 🤷‍♀️

Where are people currently burning effigies of asylum seekers in England?

Nuance is exactly what I am getting at and what is frequently dismissed in the broad brush responses you get on these issues.
I think there is a comfort from people south of border to say 'they aren't Irish like us' about people up north (not just about loyalists) and from northern nationalists about their unionist neighbours. Which is all to willingly accepted by many unionists who want to distinguish themselves from 'themums'.
Equally people in GB like to look over and pat themselves on the back because they are better than those stupid, backward people in NI.

Incidentally I have been to NI away matches and the number of people with Irish passports is much higher than those with British. Strongly held political belief can often be over come with a hint of inconvenience or a financial benefit. (See also the different responses down south to do you wanted a UI vs do you want a UI if you have to pay more tax).

Didn’t say they were burning effigies of asylum seeker. I just said effigies.

It has always bewildered me how it can be accepted that descendents of colonisers march through occupied territory celebrating the subjugation of a native people, banging drums and cheering. Where else in the world would this be allowed? Imagine Ameicans marching through a reservation shouting and jeering. It is shameful. Yet the BBC reports on the lovely 'festivities' as if it is perfectly reasonable.

Along with the annual burning of the Irish flag and slogans such as Kill All Taigs - charming 'culture' you have there.

I did:

Lots of people aren't cheering on riots and burning effigies of asylum seekers.

Wow, condescending much.
Effigy burning is a thing. It’s not new.
Are you saying those who take their kids to one shows that they are neither fit nor smart?

Hardly condescending. It is weird to bring children to a dangerous hate fest.

Columbus Day, Independence Day and Thanksgiving all look pretty tone deaf. The primary difference being that colonisation was much more effective so there isnt a huge proportion of 'Native people' left to object.

Yes because effigy burning is a protest. It’s a protest which many people agree with but don't see it as terribly heinous because effigy burning happens every year in England.

Are you Irish or English?

Don't be daft, Catholics don't count do they?

That despicable. If it’s not incitement to hatred and violence, I don’t know what is?

They still do this in Lewes in England every year.

I think we know why don’t we @Taytoface ( gosh your username brings back fond memories )

What, burn a small boat with “Stop the Boats” displayed underneath? Really?

Descendants of colonisers?
Get a grip and realise that there are more decedents of the work house in working class areas. The decedents of child labour, those fortunate enough to have survived.

Speaking generally. They march through the streets with burning crosses and throw Catholic effigies on a bonfire. Usually the Pope for example.

We don't agree.

What are they celebrating?

It’s a protest about the disgusting impact of mass illegal
immigration and the fact no one is listening and worse doing nothing about !

when it’s an effigy you like ( eh Boris Johnson or Katie Hopkins) you think it’s ok/ but it’s just the Same - hatred

left is always ok with opinions as long as it’s theirs only and try shut down everyone else

I don't particularly like the burning of Guy Fawkes and don't do it myself but it's different burning the effigy of someone who died hundreds of years ago to effigies of people living amongst us.