Seriously thinking about leaving the UK

[Tanyasfootspa]

I’m not sure when the turning point was, but DH and I have hit a wall. The DC are both at university now, and for the first time in a long time, we’re thinking seriously about leaving the UK. The only thing stopping us is wanting to be close to potential future grandchildren.

It just doesn’t feel like the same country anymore. Everything seems to be falling apart — the NHS, education, transport, basic services — and yet at the same time, there’s this growing mindset that the government should step in and fix every personal problem. I’m all for supporting people who genuinely need help, but it’s frustrating seeing how much personal responsibility has gone out the window. It feels like no one’s expected to stand on their own two feet anymore.

We’ve worked hard our whole lives, paid our taxes, and honestly, it feels like we’re constantly penalised for it. Meanwhile, the cost of living is insane, our quality of life is slipping, and every time we turn on the news, it’s just more chaos or excuses.

We’ve started looking at options — maybe Canada, or somewhere in Europe (though Brexit makes that harder). We don’t expect a perfect life anywhere, but we want to live somewhere that still feels like it’s moving forward, not falling apart.

Has anyone else made the move once the kids were grown up? Did it help? Are we just burned out, or is this how others are feeling too?

Would really love to hear your honest experiences.

Basically this. No idea how it gets fixed - they’ll just hop from one tax haven to the next sadly.

Yes. Mumsnet tends to be very anti-British, but most 'first world' countries have a variation on the same problems as here.

Rising cost of living, housing crisis, tensions over immigration, declining public services. Various combinations of these issues and more can be found just about everywhere. Of course the problems will be balanced out by positives too, but that is also true for the UK, even if you'd never think it to read this forum.

If you have a good opportunity and have researched your destination well, then go. But if you're thinking some 'other country' is going to be some sort of paradise, then you're going to be disappointed.

Not true.
It's net takers who want Scandi services.
Net contributors don't even ask about Dubai level of tax, but about some end of continuing increases and actually being entitled to the services they pay for.

We have relatives in Canada and their healthcare system is at capacity too.
However, I think that the difference here is that it just feels as though hard working responsible people in this country are being disrespected and shafted. I have 2 friends, both of whom have kids with Long Covid (supposedly) and ADHD. The kids in both families receive PIP for their conditions. The kids are in school. What on earth do they, as dependents, need money for when there are no additional outlays. Both spend the money on holidays. Both have a full time family member at home all day. There's no financial impact upon the family. It's utterly mad. ADHD disabilities payments have risen 41,000% in the last 10 years!
I also know someone signed off sick for the last 6 years due to anxiety. His anxiety has got worse, not better, because he stays up all night gaming and smoking weed. I also suffer from pretty bad anxiety and low mood. However, I have always taken all the help offered to try to keep afloat. The NHS have a wonderful app, which is fairly cost effective. In my view, if you are signed off through stress, it should be a requirement to do a CBT course online. I also think that people should attend group volunteering sessions for a few hours a week to lift their mood and help gain confidence in order to get better. I fully accept that some people would be unable to hold down a full time job, but surely if you are unwell or unemployed, you should be required to do something to contribute towards society. I would like to see a local list of chores whereby people in receipt of benefits have to tick off a few hours a week (litter picking, parks and footpath maintenance, food bank volunteering, graffiti removal, phone calls/welfare checks for the elderly, sorting recycling etc.

We have a ridiculous system in this country that does no one any favours.

Move to America!

Its great 2 weeks holiday a year, 3 months maternity

You can't drink until 21 (how can you go to college/Uni and not legally be allowed to drink!) but if you get a DUI the penalty is DUI driving course.

Then you have junkies or well any sort of idiot legally allowed to carry a gun up to a sub machine gun. Murder rate about 6x that of the uk you will be golden

Move to Florida you can get fired and the company does not even have to give a reason

Its GREAT

Denmark is nice otherwise....

Canada is facing same problems UK is facing. I have family in Canada.

AND you and or your family can get killed by a random with a firearm any day or hour of the week! Result.

We are thinking the same OP.

Where are you thinking of going in Europe? I'd be curious to hear. Canada is not for us. Too far away and too much of a cultural shift for us.

I feel a bit sorry for your kids, you'd stay for GC who might come along but not for your own.

OP: Artificial Intelligence is decimating entry-level opportunities for university graduates. I advise waiting until kids have properly launched as they may need more help due to the shifting employment environment.

You can use the remaining time to research your destination for your eventual move if that is still what you want.

DD just finished her 1st year at Uni and DS just finished GCSE's so we are looking at a 5 year plan to leave The UK
We plan to have a small flat here and then travel in Europe, possibly in a camper van some of the time but also do house/pet sits too.
DH has EU citizenship so its easier for us

Which country has deep thinkers? Not many I would think so. Even then most countries are a mix of deep thinkers ( usually elite) and those who are dealing with day to day life struggles and don’t have capacity to cause the change.

UK has problem of resources. It’s a very small country with not so much natural and land resources. It is pretty densely populated. It is bound to have problems of people fighting for those resources. When there are too many people, it causes increase in apathy and corruption. Everyone out for themselves, which is the case with politicians. And poor, desperate people are willing to vote anyone who tells them what they want to hear.

Switzerland on the other hand is a small country with low population and very strict criteria to allow people to immigrate there.

Their taxes are lower than in UK. Education is free for citizens, everyone is legally required to have health insurance. Everything is expensive but salaries are high, crime is very low.

That’s a good point.

"there’s this growing mindset that the government should step in and fix every personal problem"

OP as someone who is on benefits due to ill health (brought on by the pandemic), I take reall exception to your above comment.

First of all, the UK's spending on social welfare is relatively low, whether you look at it per capital or by GDP. See this for the details:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listoffcountriesbyysocialwelfaree_spending

Secondly, various governments, have absolutely decimated spending on the NHS, education and other services, all of which could have helped to prevent the increase of people going on benefits.

Thirdly, the pandemic. Apart from the vaccination role out, the government handled it very badly. Many people, like me, have never recovered and the NHS is doing nothing to help. I mean literally nothing.

Fourthly, PIP and the ill-health/disability element of Universal Credit are incredibly super hard to get. As my GP said " if you get awarded these benefits it means you really deserve them." The whole system is inhumane. In fact, I think my local Job Centre is breaking the law - they keep making me travel to them to show them my bank statements, even though I have told them numerous times that traveling to them causes me to spend the rest of the day in bed.

Fiffly, I think the right-wing media has whipped up the sentiment that too many lazy scroungers are cheating the system and preying on people like you.

But most things you mentioned here are not relevant to op.

She is not younger than 21. She is not planning to have more kids.

US has a lot of problems but there are nice small towns/ suburban areas with great sense of community.

On that US Uni drinking 😉. It’s called fake IDs. The student union even hand them out at …..

We are just back from 3 weeks in Australia, and all I can say, is that it was like Utopia compared to the UK

Apart from the massive housing crisis, soaring cost of living and the looming catastrophe of climate change?

Anywhere can 'seem like Utopia' on a brief visit.

France has a higher productivity rate than the UK (but because we work more hours it balances out). But there are definitely things they do better. They have better infrastructure (trains) but then they have for a long time invested more in it. Which means higher taxes
Yes, better infrastructure but they also pay higher taxes, no free healthcare, and a higher rate of tax paid in welfare. All the issues we moan about, schools and hospitals are worse in France. As for politics, even more of a horror show!

I think it’s unlikely he said that since it’s not true. Asylum seekers are housed (what’s the alternative?). They get a (small) subsistence allowance, not ‘benefits’ and they aren’t allowed to work.

I think it is natural to reassess your life when your DC finally become closer to being independent.

There is nothing wrong with fancying a change of pace. Just do your research first and make sure that it is not a case of the grass being greener. Every country has it's pros and cons.

Have you considered a move to a different part of the UK?
What about a holiday home/timeshare somewhere else? A few people I know intend to split their time between countries.

I would always keep a base in the UK, as it could be harder to restart if you sell up fully.

"people aren't taking personal responsibility and claiming benefits"

"Prices are getting too expensive for me"

I wonder if these two things are related and apply to others?

Having lived in other countries around the world and travelled around a lot of others believe me, the UK might not be perfect but it’s certainly better than 98% of other places you could choose to live.

Why do you think Americans make YouTube videos about how great they find the UK for crime, healthcare etc and why so many asylum seekers would rather come here than stay in France?

Can you take a sabbatical or extended holiday/annual leave and travel a bit. You say you're fed up of the UK but I don't think the places you've listed are any better. Cost of living in north America (US and Canada) is much much higher than the UK, so that's not addressing your issue at all. Do you have skill sets that mean you'd be able yo get a visa abroad? Do you speak any languages?
I think you need time away, to explore new places (don't holiday there, rent an air bnb in a normal town, talk to local people, use the supermarkets and the local infrastructure and see what you think). In my experience most people absolutely love the NHS when they visit here or live here as immigrants, they cannot believe they can just "get" health care and applaud it- there will be some massive culture shocks of things you feel entitled to that are simply not provided elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that there are issues, and other countries will address some of them, but they will also have their own inequalities and faults. Do some more research first.

UK is 17th ranked when you use the criteria of % for of gdp. I think % of gdp is a better indicator than per capita. Because if your gdp is low, you won’t be able to pay much per person.

UK is ranked above Netherlands, Switzerland, Australia, Canada and many other countries.

A lot of countries which are highly ranked like France, Belgium are already having problems.

In the end, it’s a number game. If your income is low, you would spend less on per person. If you have too many people, then the amount will become smaller.

I live in Switzerland, crime is low, quality of life is high. They are able to achieve that with much lower % of GDP.

You are in genuine need for benefits but there are plenty who exploits the system. UK doesn’t have that pot of money which comes from income. Which industry in UK is flourishing? What is UK known for in recent times? Technology, Innovation, manufacturing? What is it selling that world is buying? US has a lot of problems, but they have booming technology and other industries which employ a lot of people. Any major company website you open and see how many job positions are in US versus UK. UK has no focus in developing technology, industries and creating jobs. So where the gdp is not that high compared to other developed countries and there is no plan to increase it so benefit system has become increasingly unsustainable.

YANBU OP, when I retire I am likely to move away from the UK (assuming things are as bad as they are now). I have an EU passport so that helps. Yes, every country has problems but the UK seems uniquely incapable of addressing them. Having worked in or close to the public sector for 20 years I am tired of having the same conversations about the same issues and failing to implement the common-sense solutions!