Seriously thinking about leaving the UK

[Tanyasfootspa]

I’m not sure when the turning point was, but DH and I have hit a wall. The DC are both at university now, and for the first time in a long time, we’re thinking seriously about leaving the UK. The only thing stopping us is wanting to be close to potential future grandchildren.

It just doesn’t feel like the same country anymore. Everything seems to be falling apart — the NHS, education, transport, basic services — and yet at the same time, there’s this growing mindset that the government should step in and fix every personal problem. I’m all for supporting people who genuinely need help, but it’s frustrating seeing how much personal responsibility has gone out the window. It feels like no one’s expected to stand on their own two feet anymore.

We’ve worked hard our whole lives, paid our taxes, and honestly, it feels like we’re constantly penalised for it. Meanwhile, the cost of living is insane, our quality of life is slipping, and every time we turn on the news, it’s just more chaos or excuses.

We’ve started looking at options — maybe Canada, or somewhere in Europe (though Brexit makes that harder). We don’t expect a perfect life anywhere, but we want to live somewhere that still feels like it’s moving forward, not falling apart.

Has anyone else made the move once the kids were grown up? Did it help? Are we just burned out, or is this how others are feeling too?

Would really love to hear your honest experiences.

@Namitynamename it was the same in Copenhagen too - both my neighbours parents in tgeir70s still lived in Copenhagen . - in flats!!

I like this description about Dutch culture and that people stay close to their families and long standing friendship groups. Very attractive especially for old age.

Possibly linked to house prices too? Ie easier to live where you grew up, working in a regular suburban job, being an active part of a community you’ve always known. It sounds very appealing and safe.

Community seems core to a good life regardless of income (assuming basic income = adequate standard of living) - and perhaps what needs strengthening the most in the UK.

@EdisinBurgh it’s definitely a problem in many more expensive parts of the country - my son genuinely wants to stay in London - his gf is south east London born and bred and has always lived there - they have lived there 6 years - unless he buys a shared ownership (considering this) or carry’s on renting they are a bit stuffed- even in areas like Bromley or Enfield etc as they are moderate earners but hard working . -

No house prices are a nightmare.and source of much political tension. As here.

Im also a hypocrite in this regard by the way.
And there are downsides. One of my friends (no Dutch) was dating a Dutch guy and they were quite disparaging of the fact she liked opera - it was portrayed as being stuck up/thinking she was too good or something. Obviously not all Dutch people are like that. But there are downsides to being "somewhere" people and downsides to being "everywhere" people.**

I meant to say they do invest a lot of money into community. Both in terms of urban planning (I think the Dutch do it better than anywhere) and in lots of grants etc to people wanting to do community activities/initiatives. It's depressing but while maybe they always do it better you can really see the divergence as "austerity" became a policy in the UK. It's a working example of how spending money can bring social good. Renters have much more rights. But housing is still an issue

Basically Margaret Thatcher was wrong. There is such a thing as society...

I think renters also have more rights - and freedoms to paint/add mezzanines to rooms with high ceilings etc in Germany.

Scandinavia isn’t as sunny days and rainbows as it’s reputation suggests, and urban planners have often got it wrong, e.g. with the creation of immigrant “ghettos” in Sweden, and then the issue of tearing communities apart when they’ve later tried to disperse people from the ghettoised blocks….

@Namitynamename as someone who considered Utrech /Haarlem/the Hague just pre Brexit to live ( we went to Copenhagen instead for 20 months and then had to come back for elderly relative reasons) I can attest to that, certainly from a renting angle, very expensive ( more so than ‘nice’ areas in UK , and not always very great quality either , particularly if you want a house , also a blooming incredibly expensive nightmare if you want to run a decent car and health is’pay in’ . Kind of place that I feel works better if you have a corporate relocation too with expenses paid!! - we worked out that we simply couldn’t afford it as my H wasnt prepared to live in a 2 bed flat and have no car - Copenhagen even factoring in more expensive in what you had to buy in shops etc actually worked out more affordable as much better and more affordable housing , free healthcare and much cheaper to lease a car - same was true in Sweden - I think often people just look and think ‘ooh beer and eating out are cheaper’ and take things at face value - it’s very different indeed if you live somewhere. I do like Netherlands but realistically I know that it’s pretty costly to have same lifestyle as even UK

Its flatter (in every sense of the word). Most rented property is housing associations I think, and a significant portion of that is for lower incomes on subsidised housing. So you can have two people on very different incomes living on the same street. (It's not that there aren't "deprived" areas. But deprived by the standards of say the Hague, is not deprived by American standards.or even UK standards). But on a higher income you probably won't see the "benefit" of earning more than your neighbour.to the same extent. And coming from abroad to rent you are paying top price - probably a lot more than your neighbours would. However, you would also benefit from tax.breaks.
I actually think this it feels healthier as a society but it only really works because the majority of people are gone with it (they like to think they are egalitarian/don't have a class structure. They do, and there is snobbery but you have to pretend there isn't). However, there is still a shortage of housing (as in the UK) and the price of property is crazy and it's difficult for young people to get on the housing ladder.

What I find interesting is that they offer tax breaks to high earners coming from abroad for a set period of time (lots of local people do reset this). The gamble is, after this time, many of the high earners will happily stay on and continue to pay tax at a higher rate. And lots do. So I don't think "tax rises = wealthy people leave the UK" is so obviously what's going on. I think what makes people stay and feel they have a good quality of life is more complicated than that.

@Namitynamename yep - was similar in Denmark , except the nicer houses were a fair bit cheaper ( less demand from expats working for UN and big corporates etc )

Stop watching the news and start living your life. You won't find what you're looking for in another country.

That may well be true of the Dutch, but I can assure you many of them do move to other countries to live. There are quite a number of them in my small rural NZ town, and they have been emigrating here for many years.

I wish I could leave the planet let alone the country.

If you're rich enough you're immune to all the destruction our leaders are doing to our countries.

Oh I read this article too. Their sums were NONSENSE (as the comments below the line quickly revealed) and they also had not done their homework on other issues (e.g. their children’s entitlement to French nationality). Overall they were idiots who would have lost money either way.

I have lived in France (9 years) and the Netherlands (8 years so far). OP, YANBU to consider leaving the U.K. We will never be going back there to live. Every time we visit, we do enjoy seeing friends and family, but we don’t enjoy seeing a country where everything is broken (from the NHS to the roads) and where our children would not benefit from living there.
There are valid concerns on this thread that you obviously need to consider (e.g. visas, language learning) but none of these are insurmountable. You can subsequently acquire nationality of your chosen country via residency or marriage after moving (I became French in 2017 for instance) and learn languages over time. I have C1 French (at least that’s the highest level I’ve been tested to - only C2 is higher) and strong B1 Dutch; you have to put the effort in but it can be done.
Of course all countries have problems and in the end it’s not a holiday; you still have to go to the supermarket, pay your taxes etc, and do all those other boring things. Ultimately, though, in our experience, the benefits of living in our chosen countries have so far outweighed the downsides. Obvious highlights include the healthcare system, respect for intellectualism and private life, and proper lunch breaks in France, and high-quality infrastructure, directness, healthcare system, and high QOL (especially for kids) in the Netherlands. I would say it’s ALWAYS worth trying. People tend to automatically compare the U.K. to other English-speaking countries before deciding that Britain is better than everywhere (especially health and welfare-wise) but this is hasty and incorrect. People have really got their blinkers on when it comes to the U.K. and I am always amazed how blind Brits are to the country’s faults. Sometimes it feels like a cult (particularly when it comes to the NHS).

This was the article in The Times, wasn't it? Yeah, load of baloney. No way they paid those prices for those properties in that area.

Maybe people have different experiences. I've had great care from the NHS both at my local surgery and in hospital. The NHS saved my baby's life when I needed an emergency c section on Christmas Day, when I contacted my GP about some chest pains I was sent straight to hospital and within 3 hrs I was on a specialised cardiac ward, I get health checks due to age and am given advice, I've had regular smears and mammograms for decades. I have had one issue with a GP who dismissed my symptoms as due to age but the nurse practitioner sorted that out. As my DHs carer I am offered help and support.

I find people are generally kind and helpful, as an old lady on public transport I am offered seats, offered help with bags etc.

Have my local roads got pot holes? Yes but other things outweigh that. Maybe you have some blind spots and should balance the negativity and moaning with people who are actually finding life here pretty good.

If you've lived outside the UK for 17 years, I'm slightly baffled that you claim to know about its alleged faults and how the NHS operates.

Just wanted to do a quick update on NHS service.

At 8.15 I sent a message to my GP surgery about a med issue I'm having.

At 9.21 I missed a call from them to say doctor had reviewed my message and at 9.24 got a text.giving me advice and also letting me know GP wanted me to have a blood test which they'd booked for tomorrow and telling me to update them in 2 weeks about how I was but to seek immediate medical help if things got any worse.

I honestly can't complain can I?

@TheignT I’ve had similar service recently here in Bath as has my father in law in Frome - I honestly think it’s pot luck these days .

I think it might also be about following the way the system works. I could have tried getting an appointment and moaned about waiting on the phone, no appointments available, but I know that filling in the online form, giving all the relevant information results in an appropriate and prompt reply.

If people don't have the internet or can't use the form they can go into the surgery and either fill in the form themself or a member of admin staff will help them.

@TheignT yep I agree

@TheignT yep I agree

@TheignT yep I agree

Exactly