Seriously thinking about leaving the UK

[Tanyasfootspa]

I’m not sure when the turning point was, but DH and I have hit a wall. The DC are both at university now, and for the first time in a long time, we’re thinking seriously about leaving the UK. The only thing stopping us is wanting to be close to potential future grandchildren.

It just doesn’t feel like the same country anymore. Everything seems to be falling apart — the NHS, education, transport, basic services — and yet at the same time, there’s this growing mindset that the government should step in and fix every personal problem. I’m all for supporting people who genuinely need help, but it’s frustrating seeing how much personal responsibility has gone out the window. It feels like no one’s expected to stand on their own two feet anymore.

We’ve worked hard our whole lives, paid our taxes, and honestly, it feels like we’re constantly penalised for it. Meanwhile, the cost of living is insane, our quality of life is slipping, and every time we turn on the news, it’s just more chaos or excuses.

We’ve started looking at options — maybe Canada, or somewhere in Europe (though Brexit makes that harder). We don’t expect a perfect life anywhere, but we want to live somewhere that still feels like it’s moving forward, not falling apart.

Has anyone else made the move once the kids were grown up? Did it help? Are we just burned out, or is this how others are feeling too?

Would really love to hear your honest experiences.

I think the tax point is key here. I actually pay less tax in France even though my salary here is higher than in the UK. As a family of 4 with the family quotient (income divided into three parts before tax bands are applied) more of my salary as ´family’s income is taxed in lower bands than in the UK. So think 3 personal allowances applied before the tax bands even in kick in. In 3 parts the very top slice of family income (circa €20 -30k) gets taxed at the top rate of 40%. In the UK, I had no personal allowance and the vast majority of my salary was taxed at 40% and 45%.

Many low income families with 1 or 2 children in France pay no tax at all and a middle income family with 2 or 3 children is also likely to pay very little or no tax at all.

Yes the taxes are higher but personally I think they bite at the right level. I think there is definitely more incentive for parents to be in gainful employment in France, especially with more readily available and affordable younger years childcare.

As a result I don’t agree that those (like me) would be just as disgruntled in France as in Uk because the tax regime overall feels considerably more fair and balanced.

Every country has moaners.
They moan in the Netherlands too even though to me so many things are done so.much better (no austerity for one). But almost everywhere has tensions around immigration/racism; culture war stuff; cross farmers; economic woes; a sense that things aren't as good as they used to mw/that wages don't go far. And house prices. Always house prices. Partly I think because some issues are genuine universal problems - the impact of COVID and land/houses being an investment opportunity.not somewhere to live.

But also there is general dissatisfaction pushed by social media/YouTube videos saying "why the United Kingdom is a LAUGHING STOCK" or "totally screwed" often with a thumbnail of a presenter looking shocked in front of an AI image of London on fire or something.

So working out what is a "real" problem and what has been amplified by too much doom scrolling is hard sometimes.

I don't think there is anything wrong with UK people moving abroad. I would be a massive hypocrite. But I don't agree with the idea that the UK is uniquely crap/doomed.

Yes I think there's a pinch point at about 100k in the UK. It's very far from poor. But it is a cliff edge for lots of things
I saw a poster talk about "families earning 100-500k" but actually there is a massive difference between 100k.and 500k.
The problem is reforming the tax system so maybe people on 100k are less squeezed but the money is made back in higher tax bands might work. But then you would have people earning, eg,.300k who see their taxes go up feeling victimised (possibly also with some forced teaming with lower incomes). And right wing rags reporting an "exodus" of ordinary people earning 300k.

Plan d'eau's, picnic areas, sports facilities ie pitches, all free and most parking is almost always free too.

In the UK, this would almost all be charged for and/or parking wouldn't be free.

@Alexandra2001 I suspect that is to do with how councils and social care are funded too - the UK system these days is nuts - it’s a viscious circle now, we have a lot of low wages service economy jobs , therefore high tax at modest earnings like the scandis have along with many other Northern European nations would cause an outcry , as well as low basic pensions , we end up with an awful lot of high costs for private rented housing and stupid levels to buy in many parts of the country too - and a press that would be utterly ruthless in criticising a complete about face turnaround on top that might not favour their reader demographic . On top of this we have a first past the post system that means anyone in power is scared to turn off a whole demographic

Yes we are paying for hollowed out services, which still cost a lot to fund ie buildings hr etc but aren't funded enough to provide a decent service.

I've wondered, with its history, some countries in Europe are more worried about the population taking matters into their hands than others?

We need electoral reform, PR is way over due.

I would like to move back ‘home’ to Ireland but I hear it’s just as bad there.
DD has just joined the Royal Navy and as it’s Fleet Air Arm she’ll likely to be in Somerset or Cornwall.
We’re in west London and no reason to stay here, I’m thinking of doing the typical Escape to the Country and move to Somerset. DH will be retiring soon and nice to buy somewhere nicer and cheaper, not having HS2 behind us

@BobbySox71 we live in Bath because I like still having plenty on doorstep but I would also add in places like Corsham and Bradford on Avon and Devizes in west wilts if you come this way - all nice places to live and you can get a decent buy too -

Thank you, I would live to in North Somerset. I currently work (admin) in a sister hospital of Bath clinic so I’m sure I could try for a job there.
I’ll be bringing my horse and although we don’t want to buy land I’m sure there’s nice livery yards to keep him. I love hacking so plenty of bridleways are a must, maybe Mendips or Wiltshire downs.

Yep North Somerset tends to mean areas like Portishead or clevedon, ( which may not be what you are after though m not sure) whereas north east Somerset is more Bath/ Bath villages - villages like Norton st Phillip , wellow might suit ( wellow has a lovely stables too) - lots of horsey stuff in that area, same with Bruton and castle Cary - nice too towards Wells with horses , although shit for train connections if you need them - other lovely villages round Frome like Beckington and Nunney . Its nice too towards Wells , to be honest it’s all nice.

If you move to Ireland as someone who lives in Dublin, I would move to anywhere except Dublin! The rest of Ireland is literally empty!

I agree, I’m from Co Carlow but my brother and SIL live I Kilkenny which is lovely. My other brother with family lives in Glenealy which is sort of commuting distance to Dublin.

For posters who favourably compare France to the UK, a question : what happens to poor and elderly people who are unable to live independently? Do they have the same system of basic / low quality care homes we have in the UK?

I wondered if care homes are unique in Europe to Britain or the norm. They are a negative symbol to me of an eroding society and personally I’d hate to end up in one (I mean the ones that are stretched and low quality for people who don’t have any money to pay)

Schools closing for Eid and some "non British shops" are not sharia law 😂

This thread is so hilarious. People wanting to leave the UK in search of a better life.....because there are too many immigrants in our country who left their countries in search of a better life. Couldn't make this shit up. I hope you all like being an immigrant in another country! I don't suppose the natives will like it though, although you'd of course say you are an "ex pat" not an immigrant, right?😂

Care homes are not unique to britain. Whether they are better or worse on other European countries I don't know. But I do remember a huge number of very sad stories about care homes across Europe during covid.

@RealLifeClanger I loved living in Copenhagen - and we used to go to Sweden a lot too - it would suit some but not others, it’s high tax and expensive but you get a lot for your tax in my opinion- it’s very ordered . They do have issues too but the basics work well

In France Social care is integrated into hospital care, so you don't get the frantic searching for a care package when a patient is medically fit.

They also go for the worst case scenario, so go to the GP with a bad back and you'll often get a scan, then its Physio/pain killers.

...terrible stories in the UK too.

Covid strained every aspect of care, wherever you lived.

What about loneliness, isolation and neglect for old people? These are other aspects of modern life in Britain I worry about.

Families being less involved and present with their elderly parents (perhaps having moved away). Widowed elderly people living out their days with little care and company especially from their extended families.

Do the other countries listed in this thread as having a better quality of life than the UK, also face these issues?

I have an Italian friend who had a parent in a care home in Italy and a German friend who had an aunt in a care home in Germany. Both families have lots of money. Both my friends live in London, I don’t know if other family members were on hand for the old folk

Plus the centre of Dublin is dangerous!

There are care homes in Sweden too, and home carers that come to your home a few times a day if you prefer that. The cost of living in a care home in Sweden is based on your income/pension but the average is around £900/month and that includes everything from rent/care/food etc. I think you might pay extra for medication. If you are on a low pension you pay less. If you choose to live at home and have carers come to you, you pay a maximum of £200/month for the care.

This, and the heavily subsidised childcare/parental leave is why most Swedes don't mind paying high taxes.

I think everywhere is dealing with an aging population and the issues which come with that. That said in NL lots of Dutch people are surprisingly parochial in the sense of people tend to stay closer to where they were.born,.hang out with the exact same friendship groups through life. You could mark that as having less ambition ( frowned upon in the UK and even more in the US) but it means children are.nearer.their parents as they age. Older people are also nearer their own friendship group/support network. So quality of life seems better for older people.
Its a trade of between ambition/earning as much as possible and quality of life/staying with what you love and making it better. Just as there is a trade of between paying less tax and having nice public services. Other countries can look better but there is usually a reason/tradeof they made.

Of course, leaving for another country because older people seem to have a better quality of life is ironic if the reason older people have better quality of life there is due to being around family and friends.

@EdisinBurgh and the ignoring of carers (or their demonisation as benefits sponges) plays into this too. According to many on Mumsnet, someone who gives up their job and reduces their income to care for a vulnerable family member is basically at fault for not being a contributor to the economy/ tax income. But we need people willing to do that for society to function.