“Most employers won’t let you WFH and look after children”

[choochoowah]

Is this actually the case? I know some must have this policy but my husbands certainly doesn’t: they don’t know or care what he does in the day as long as the work gets done (he works from home twice a week, on Mondays and Fridays.)

WFH isn’t an option in my job so I don’t know. I’m just wondering how common this is as an actual policy.

Everyone in my team of 30 works remotely, based all over the country (NZ). We would probably average four online meetings a day in various sub-teams, and with clients. Some of the internal meetings are scheduled but many are called at quick notice during our core expected hours of 10 to 4. (Eight hour days; we need to be available during that time frame for meetings but can make up the other hours whenever, including on the weekends.)
One of my colleagues has a 2.5 year old and a baby (as well as two at primary school). She will be half way through saying something in a meeting and the toddler will crawl up to colleague's lap and wriggle about, pulling faces at the screen, or will be "mum, mum, mum, muuuuuummmmm". The constant interruption by the toddler, and the camera/microphone constantly being switched off and on is distracting. It drives me crazy and is unprofessional! I hate to think what happens during her client-facing remote meetings.

@choochoowah our work is extremely flexible and we can pick and choose when we start and when we WFH within reason. It is fine to take breaks to put a wash load on etc. However, while people describe this anecdotally as ‘being able to do what we like as long as the work is done’ the HR policies explicitly say ‘the hours you work are for work, not childcare’ so anything that is not work, other than lunch or toilet breaks, is not considered as work time, which seems fair enough to me. Most of my friends who WFH seem to have a similar policy.

Is it that some people have the other type of job, where you only need to do X and Y?

I have the type of job with endless work unfortunately 😄, so it wouldn't be fair on my kid / my workplace / me to try to do two things at once (and both badly).

That said, DS is a teen now, so I'm happily beyond needing childcare now.

The client I work for has core hours 9 till 5 unless formally contracted otherwise

if someone WFH with no official policy in place constantly isn’t available but 10 other people are I’d just let them keep on declining the meeting and not be there

What is irritating for lots of us, is that many employers impose blanket policies that negatively impact us all, rather than deal with the pisstakers who won't use childcare.

Eg lots of companies have simply upped the requirements for all staff to be back in the office, in a bid to prevent people wfh with toddlers underfoot. This mesns i now have to pay an extra £300 a month in train fares and fees for longer hours with the childminder to cover the commute time, because my colleagues were openly working at home with toddlers.

Agree, that's why i am so cross with people who abused the trust.

I am lucky I can mainly work from home as I am disabled and working in the office makes me quite unwell. So flexible working is a lifeline to me and I feel angry at people who abuse that trust.

But @IwasDueANameChange wouldnt you have had to pay these costs before Covid? That's over now

i was paying a fortune in expenses before Covid and now could have to pay half of it again now. That’s the job I signed up for unless your contract was after 2020

My OHs job he would have got in trouble if they even heard children in the background of a call (like if I was dealing with a toddler tantrum on another floor of the house). His new job they really don’t care as long as the work is done and he’s actively encouraged to invite the toddler in to say hello to everyone when he’s in meetings.

I WFH with the toddler and will do until September when she starts nursery. I’m self employed so it’s ‘allowed’ but what that actually means in practise is that most days I end up doing a full work day once she’s in bed. I’m not sure how people could manage full time child care of a younger child while WFH during office hours.

People don’t to want to pay for childcare now, that’s the issue. They didn’t during covid and want to continue it. Those who can meet targets etc whilst working with a toddler around clearly need their targets reviewed. I certainly couldn’t have done my job with a toddler around, nor would I wanted to have had them put in front of a TV or ipad all day when they could be in childcare, cared for properly and doing enriching activities. It will be interesting in the next decade or so to see the effects of this generation of DC whose parents worked a full time job with them at home. I mean that is really sad, and different to a child 8 and above entertaining themselves whilst parent does another hour.

I found out a colleague was looking after a 9 month old baby one day a week whilst his wife was at work. Really not good.

I used to work 2 office days and 3 WFH with a massive, multi-national corporation.
My line manager knew I had my youngest child at home with me on my WFH days - it was fine as long as the work got done.
They did a monthly productivity review, and I was consistently in the top 3 on my team for number of cases resolved and closed.
If I was slacking and consistently in the bottom third productivity-wise, I’m sure her feelings on the matter would have changed!

I had a manager who would have kids at home after school most days, both her and her husband wfh and would juggle calls, so one was able to work while the other looked after the kids, but she would work a bit in the evening to make up for it.
Had another colleague who had a 5 year old who was constantly interrupting calls etc. Someone had to have a word with her because it was inappropriate and she was told she needed to sort childcare.
My son has always been a teenager since I’ve worked from home so it’s never been a problem. As long as he had WiFi and food I’d never know he was there!

Our WFH policy stipulates you can’t have regular caring responsibilities on WFH day. No-one would have an issue with the odd day with a primary school child off sick that would be in bed or you can pop on the sofa for a day, but young children who need active childcare throughout the day would be a no-no. A four year old for an hour? If you started a bit early or worked a bit late, that would be fine.

Depends on the employer and contract, I guess.

If you tell an employer you want to work from home to care for children, they’d likely say it’s not possible. But if you WFH, school-age children are at home and able to entertain themselves safely with minimal supervision, and it doesn’t affect your work in any way (confidentiality, availability, concentration, workload), then it’s unlikely to be a problem and may not be a breach of contract or policy.

I worked from home 80% from 2000 to 2010. The first rule was that WFH was not a substitute for childcare.
I think the post Covid situation has arisen due to companies rushing out WFH without any rules or regulations. My youngest sister works from home while looking after 2 young children. Can’t imagine her employer (civil service) would be too happy if they knew what she was doing.

I agree re people who abused the trust.

I’ve always paid for suitable childcare for my kids - nursery, wrap around care etc. Pretty much used some form of wrap around until my youngest was old enough that he could be in the house alone if needed - because they basically are alone if you’re working properly.

Now he’s old enough to get himself to and from school, get home before me if necessary, and we’re all back in the office 60%. I don’t really mind though because he can do these things himself and I’ve deliberately made it so that I can walk to the office if needs be.

No you’re definitely not allowed to do that in the civil service! I’m in the civil service.

I actually had more WFH in 2019 than I do now (but using appropriate childcare- and had an actual commute on office days then). Which is a bit silly but in those days no one would have dreamt of WFH with kids about.

Not an issue where I work. I don’t even know how they’d know really.

I think it depends on the level of care required.

I am frequently on calls with peoples kids running around. It doesn’t bother me. However, if they were meeting with exec or their line managers they might not want that to be the case.

Come to think of it, about 80% of my team either go off and do a school run quickly or have the children dropped to them and then work until 5 after school. We all know the children are there but it’s never made any difference.

I’m pretty sure there isn’t a written policy in my work about this although there probably should be.
I must admit I sometimes have my child home with me when I’m working but she’s nearly 11 and doesn’t need ‘care’ as such and can entertain herself.

I don't know if my company has a policy on it but I wouldn't be 'caring' for my children while WFH regardless.

My kids are older now (youngest is 14) but when I'm working at home I'm in my office with the door shut* during working hrs - the kids know I'm working and leave me alone.

I do see colleagues nipping off to collect their kids from school but it's no bother as we're results/task focused, rather than bums on seats, and my company do push flexible working as a way of recruiting and retaining talent.

*Well, except on the rare glorious days like today where I sat on the lounger on the decking in the garden to do some paperwork.

Of course this is the case. And anyone that’s doing it please stop because you’re fuelling the fire of the RTO mandates and refused hybrid work requests. Totally unfair on all the people that arrange childcare for when they’re working.

Depends on the age of the dc imo - under 8/9ish they need too much care to do a job alongside - older dc that can entertain and feed themselves but just need an adult at home - no bother

Well no, cos you wouldn’t get much work done. Most employers will want to know you have childcare in place, some will just take it on trust you do.

I think the fact they haven’t enquired about your husband is either that they take it on trust, or they are sexistly assuming that he has a wife to deal with that.