Thread 4: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Second article in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

Third article in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Thread 2 Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5369425-thread-3-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn

Tbh I think the whole “honest Brit” thing is definately a real stereotype and not a bad one either and it used to be one of our best USPs. People wanted to work with us because they thought we were straight-talking and fair and not dodgy. That all kinda fell apart when Boris Johnson bumbled his way into No10 suddenly it was all spin and sleaze and no one knew what (or who) to trust anymore. But still, deep down we do love an underdog. There’s just something very British about rooting for someone who's been through it and still keeps going. Doesn’t even matter if they’re messy or flawed in fact, that kind of makes us love them even more.

I'm struggling to believe they even ran and restored a cider farm. More like they just lived on one and made the most of it.

Cooper and James have to be the same person.

RW says the interest rate charged by Cooper is 18%.

James' widow says the interest rate charged by James was 18%.

How could James' widow possibly know the interest rate if Cooper and James are not the same person?

Bruisername · Today 07:55
Can you keep allegations out of the press if they are true?

I don’t know - sometimes one hears of injunctions stopping stories from being reported but I don’t know under what circumstances these are permitted.

Yes that’s true - and of course you can get things erased from the internet too

injunctions, ndas, legally and informally changing names - all seem to be good ways to avoid responsibility for your actions or even cover up behaviour so others have no way of knowing your true character

I think that’s also true. (Not British, but lived in England for much of my adult life). I do think that the ‘straight-talking Brit’ idea died well before Boris the Clown Prince, though.

Only a super injunction can keep rumours/truth out of the press in the UK. Doesn't apply to some other countries though to translate and share on UK social media is in breach.

the point about a lack of diversity in publishing is good.

I believe publishers have sensitivity readers to remove anything that has the potential to offend, so maybe they should also have readers who have knowledge of, for example in this case, universal credit and bankruptcy.

The last sentence means nothing - selling 2 million books across the world over 7 years means that 0.025% of the world population have bought it. It really is small fry. Comparing it to a book or books that sell nothing or almost nothing doesn't prove that it has been well read. It hasn't. If I sell one apple this week, and none last week, it doesn't make apples into best sellers. If I sell one apple every week and 40 mangoes every week, my best sellers are mangoes. In the world of book publishing selling 2 million books over several years may amount to a lot of books in that small niche, but all it proves is that most people haven't read it.

They aren’t “good ways to cover up the truth”. If allegations are true, then of course they can be printed, that’s fundamental to democracy.

the only grounds for preventing publication are that a) the story isn’t true and is therefore defamatory or b) it constitutes a breach of privacy that is not in the public interest (eg a celebs lawyers persuade a judge to issue an injunction on the grounds that the story might threaten/ harm their privacy, which generally tends to be the case when it involves children).

you can’t just go and get an injunction because you want to hide something.

(edited to say - obviously anyone can change their name whenever they want, and I’m talking generalities here not this story specifically obviously no children involved)

It tickles me a bit to imagine publishers employing working class people to sniff out bullshit.

It's like that Catherine Tate family who are suddenly confronted with a working class nanny.

If you have ownership of property, either in the UK or overseas, then you have to declare it for universal credit. ETA. It doesn't stop you getting Universal Credit if you are not receiving an income from the homes owned.

To declare bankruptcy is to declare all properties owned whether in the UK or overseas because you will lose them.

Quite a big thing that they're delaying publication then.

I wonder if it'll just fade away and never be published.

It'll contain quite a bit of unverifiable writing.

Also on publishers employing endless specialist readers. Sure, sounds great, but there are 20,000 books published in the UK every year (and then there are self published ones of course) and the average uk authors income is £7,000. The entire business is run on a shoestring. Salaries within publishing are also dire.

books selling 2 million copies are a massive, massive outlier. Again, not defending the book but surely you can see how a publisher a) did not expect these sales b) could not fact check memoir to this degree for every thing they print, it’s simply not economically possible.

I think sales aside, TSP gained a lot of traction from seemingly being on the reading list of every book club in the country. Probably an exaggeration I know ( I've never joined one, wary of joining anything since being kicked out of the Brownies for insubordination)

I’ve always wondered if sensitivity readers actually have any experience in the sensitivity they are judging

common sense readers would have picked a lot of this stuff up

on the injunctions - I guess there is a cost benefit to the newspaper in terms of time and cost of objecting to the injunction. And in this case, for example, is the story big enough to justify that cost?

I find it odd that she admitted wanting to sit down with the paper first and keep the whole conversation secret. She comes across as quite duplicitous

I was in a book group which I loved and it sadly no longer operates. One of my favourite books to read was a Stuart Marconi about the North - Pies and Prejudice I think.

on fact checking - the ghostwriter Mark on Today this morning made that point that he as a reader picked up a lot of inconsistencies so why did her editor not ask the basic questions even if a full fact check wasn’t done

This book has been mentioned twice now - as I am from up north I feel I need to read it.

@PhilippaGeorgiou, you’ve said that several times, but it makes no sense. Do you realise how small the reading public actually is, even in, say, the Anglophone world? Bestselling books are not calculated as a percentage of the entire population of the world!

Obviously most people haven’t read TSP. The first Harry Potter novel sold 120 million copies, and is one of the most widely-translated books ever, but as a percentage of the 8 billion plus people on earth, most people haven’t read that either. Most publishing works at a much more micro-level, with far smaller print runs, smaller advances, smaller margins.

Given the last week’s events I imagine they will be looking more closely at the veracity of the writing and if anything can be proven to be untrue before allowing it to be published. Assuming they decide it is still in their interests to publish. She seems so tainted they might decide to just drop it.

Agree. As I said on a previous thread, the figure often quoted is that the average book sells 3,000 copies in its lifetime. Most books won't even sell that many. A publisher has no way of knowing how a first book from an unknown author will perform, so they won't want to spend too much money on it. That is why, for example, the first print run of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was only 500 copies, 300 of which were for distribution to libraries. Perhaps the editor(s) should have picked up on some of the inconsistencies, but it simply isn't cost effective for publishers of non-fiction books to do the kind of deep dive the Observer has done. They would rapidly go out of business if they tried. They have to rely to a large degree on their contract which requires the author to certify that their book is true.

Good point @Bruisername

Having done a bit of proof reading and editing in the past, it's tricky to keep up with the timeline and the inconsistencies - this does only apply to fiction. You cannot become emotionally involved with the book.

Non fiction relies on receipts and corroboration which are easy to do. Most importantly is trust and another impassioned eye on the subject. Most authors are honest and will often correct a timeline.

To add I only did it for friends and family on novels and biographies - the latter being about a sports movement.

Did proofread for a famous brochure but I don't want to talk about that.

This is a very good point because, whilst I was completely sold on TSP, when I read the third book recently it all felt a bit odd. Tim not progressing towards death was a big flag. So much so I googled to see if he'd died since. He hadn't so it just didn't add up.

I still went to see the film which I found profoundly boring. And when you saw them asking for teapots of hot water that they dipped their teabags in I was really pissed off.

Knowing what we now know I question the veracity of this.

When I worked in hospitality in the 80s and 90s nowhere I worked, including small cafes, ever gave anyone a pot of hot water on its own without them buying tea alongside.

Pots of tea go a long way to make up the profit of these small cafes because they only cost a few pence, but the return is quite large.

I would, it's really enjoyable. Cider with Roadies (he loves a pun, does Stuart) is hilarious too, partly about his attempts to form a band, the shortlived Les Flirts ( I reread recently so fresh in my mind)