To think my daughter's phone has ruined her life

[mamafrustration]

I am a mother to an eleven year old phone addict. She got a phone when she was eight and we have never restricted her usage, which has increased substantially in the last year. It got to the stage where she was on it almost every waking second she wasn't forced by me (DH didn't give a monkeys) to do something else. One day she clocked more than ten hours so I said enough is enough and put restrictions on it. She now has three hours a day, which I still feel is too much, but I recognise she's a tweenager and wants to text her friends, plus it's useful for emergencies and gives some comfort when she is in walking home alone from school.

When she's not on the phone she tries to use other screens by going on her laptop or watching the same handful of shows on the tv over and over. I force her to come out for a walk with me everyday, and we usually go for a coffee and talk about how she's feeling, how her day has been etc. She recently told me she is depressed, but will not accept the phone is contributing to this. I also tell her to do activities like drawing, reading, and she codes simple Scratch games on her laptop. I have to tell her to do these things because without prompting she will just lay down and stare into space miserably.

I have told her I will bankroll any hobby she wants to do, pay for any club she'd like to join, take her to any sport she can think of, and take her on holiday anywhere she wants to go but she says she doesn't want to do anything. She has zero imagination, zero curiosity, no ambitions for her future, and just wants to lay about at home on her phone all the time.

I take her on cheap holidays to get away from the house and provide her with stimulation, but she complains whenever I tell her we're going somewhere. She's not spoilt, she's well behaved, and doesn't expect anything from me, but she takes no joy in a day out or a holiday. I could say I'm taking her to Disneyland and she wouldn't want to go.

I really do feel it's abnormal for an eleven year old not to want to go out and experience things, especially fun stuff like holidays. I have always taken her away a lot and she says it's not special and she doesn't enjoy it. In the May half term I took her to London for four nights in the YHA. We did loads of things and I took her to the theatre three of the nights. When we left I asked her what her favourite thing was and she said staying up on her phone while we waited for the cheap theatre tickets to be posted at midnight. I would have killed for a trip like that at her age, and wouldn't have been able to choose the best bit because it was all great. And we do the seaside, camping, hostelling, city breaks in Travelodges with loads of places to visit... It's cheap and it's UK but it's still fun. Well, it is for me. She's not interested at all.

I blame myself for this. I should have put restrictions on the phone from the start.
Now I'm reducing the time she thinks she's being punished. I have explained to her that letting her use the phone for ten hours is bad parenting, and that I'm not going to stop trying to stimulate her with holidays and days out because I want her to have experiences. But she says I make her feel like she's a problem. She's not a problem, she's my child. But she is fighting me every step of the way.

I just don't know how to change her mindset. I don't think that taking the phone away entirely is an option because I don't want to cut her off from her friends but I do feel like it's a barrier to increasing her happiness. I want her to live her life and actually enjoy it, not feel like the only good thing in the world is spending hours and hours scrolling YouTube shorts or looking at memes. Nothing else makes her happy.

TLDR, my kid has an unhealthy phone addiction and can find no joy in anything else.

Why did you buy an 8 yr old a phone?

If it's the usual so I know where she is yada yada then you are being unreasonable. My 8 yr old has been bought a watch which I can call and track. There is no internet access or any means to message friends etc. But I know she is safe and she can contact me as well. Much better option than a phone!

You really need to read Anxious Generation.

Not meant in a judgy way but she is a child and you need to take control - now.

From another perspective, OP - 46 yo here, who would be happy to sit on her phone all the time. I'm well read, used to read books since very early childhood. Since I had my smartphone with internet access, I haven't read a single book. Actively prefer "virtual" people to real ones. Only the fact that I have other duties keeps me off the phone.
As for your daughter, please do this gradually. At eleven years, it would be very hard to understand why you took the phone in an instant (after not having restrictions).
She could become depressed etc, the fomo is another issue a child cannot properly deal with.
For myself, putting the phone down is very difficult.
This is your young kid. 🍀

Read Unplugged Parenting by Elizabeth Kilbey. It is really useful. Their brains cannot cope with all this usage and other executive function skills such as initiation, planning, etc are being lost.

I'm bad enough with my phone. I don't know how I can reasonably expect my kids to manage their use TBF. They've not got phones yet but eldest expects to get one next year.

This is actually horrifying, and very sad.
She should be having the time of her life at that age- no responsibilities and lots of fun with friends and days out with family.
What I wouldn’t do to go back to being a tween (pre-mobiles!) and feel that excitement about the world again.

You need to remove screens from your child’s life, apart from a bit of TV to relax in the evening. I hate to tell you this OP, but allowing her unrestricted access has stolen what should be the best years of her life. She is addicted and her brain is constantly needing that hit that she gets off it.

I would get rid of the phone. Replace it with a brick phone so she can text and make calls. Give very restricted access to other screens so she doesn't use them as a replacement. She'll hate it but stand firm.

She is so, so young. You're absolutely right to be worried. Smart phones are so destructive to children. But you can absolutely solve this by taking it away. You'll have to ride the shitty detox period but you'll be giving her back her life. It will be the greatest gift you can give her.

It’s really easy to happen and the tantrums are hard to deal with but you need to. It sounds like you have some money available to do day trips etc, I’d take her away for an extended period doing something completely different and out of her comfort zone. She’s addicted and like someone else said, you wouldn’t keep giving an alcoholic child drink. She needs to go through all the stages of withdrawal. You can’t just take it off her for a few days and give it back - she need to get clean. Can watches send messages? As if she has a smart watch she can’t complain she can’t communicate with her friends but she wont have access to the internet proper. What is she even doing on her phone for that amount of time? (Says the woman sitting on mumsnet)

edited to clarify that I meant take her away not just on day trips - you’re essentially taking someone who is addicted to alcohol (phone), refusing to allow them alcohol (a phone) for 6 hours while you go out to the beach or theatre and expecting them to have a good time sober. If you can take her away and understand you’re going to go through days of nasty withdrawal before her addiction starts lifting. It needs more than a week - if not 3+.

Well firstly it's not 'her' phone.
Presumably she doesn't pay the bill so it's yours.
No 11 year old needs a smart phone ffs, let alone an 8 year old.

What's done is done now but yes it needs taking off her and a basic brick given.

I'm a police officer and just this week I've been to no less than 3 incidents of primary age kids sending each other nude photos. One of them, a 9 year old boy, was watching step dad/daughter porn. SS now aware.

Please tell me you at least have website restrictions and age permissions activated, not just time restrictions?

I honestly think we'll look back at the way we allowed kids access to phones the way we look back at the Victorians sending kids up chimneys.

💯

Fgs.

They shouldn't have phones at that age.

This. I was really strict with screen time with my kids when they were younger but always within the context of why. As I've loosened the restrictions (all young adults now) it's always within the context of "if I see anything to concern me (=attitude, not exercising, not sleeping, not getting school work done, not doing chores, being obviously depressed / in a bad way" then we reverse back to strict access. It helps if they understand why you are putting rules in place and fundamentally agree with them.

Could you get her into horse riding? Many livery yards have zero reception 😂 and it's a good way to spend a lot of time outside with kids of similar age. Plus, horses are therapeutic and good for mental health.

I think you are being a good mum, you're doing as much as you can without alienating her.

At her age I was the same, taken on holiday I'd prefer to sit reading magazines (way before phones/TV inb hotel rooms/Internet etc) all day. My parents really cross with me but it is what I liked doing at that age.

My magazines are the equivalent of her phone time. I'd not be so worried.

It's really not equivalent in any way.

Unfortunately giving a child a phone at 8 will affect how their brain develops. Of course she's addicted because the technology is purposely addictive.
The only real way to fix it is to remove it until she's much older.

You need to get the phone off her and check it thoroughly.

Fair play to you for recognising this op, you made a poor decision but you're working hard with her to get things back on track which is doable.

I think you firstly need to understand her usage, that means equipping yourself with as much information about tech use for kids and particularly safeguarding as possible. She's at a very vulnerable age and while I wouldn't say its addiction as such, smartphones and apps etc are designed to draw your attention and keep it. You need to know what she's doing on her phone, who she's talking to and about what and if there's any cause for concern. For example, you might both use tiktok but due to algorithms she could get very different and inappropriate content which gets more extreme. I've worked with young people who were exploited via smartphones but it appeared like they were addicted to the phone, they weren't they were being manipulated. There's some great resources online and Wayne Denner has very good info on his YouTube and website that tells you what to look for as a parent.

The next thing is acknowledging with her that you're worried this might feel like a punishment, but explain exactly what you're worried about - her mental health, her exposure to unsafe content, her resilience and being able to socialise and her confidence etc. Maybe do some research on how much phone use is good for her age together and see if that helps her to think of a better amount to be using it. Phones don't let you get bored so she's going to have to learn to sit with the discomfort of being bored now. Get her to local youth groups, make a jar with notes of things to do on it so if she can't think of what to do, she picks something out of the jar and has to do what's on it. Model good screen use yourself. Get a phone jail for the family and everyone locks their phones away together. Focus on filling time with each other, watch movies, play board games together. There's no point in telling her she can't use it if your dh is undermining it so he needs to step up. If it's not working then I agree brick phone is the way until she's older and better able to manage it.

I feel the same.

I didn't want it. I don't have primary care. Porn has already been seen through friends on theirs. I feel devastated by this situation in society.

I hate it. Child is 12.

Take the phone away and ignore her moaning. Dont be so worried about alienating her. She can't go on this way.

Why does an 8 year old need a phone?

It always turns up at some point, on every thread. So sick of 'could it be an ND thing' being constantly trotted out. It's NOT an ND thing. It's an '8 years old with unrestricted phone time' thing, for fucks sake.

As for making friends, let her make friends IRL for a change. Get her into a sport or drama or art.

I agree with this but for me it would have to be family wide. You can’t have adults having smart phones and insisting kids don’t.

Op what’s your phone usage like?