To feel like I'm not sure where I sit politically anymore, and to worry about it.

[Lookuptotheskies]

I've always been a staunch Labour voter. Always been pro refugees. Always given people the benefit of the doubt. Always felt okay that I've brought innocent kids into the world.

Labour are making cuts to disability benefits (and in turn, carer benefits). They are looking to slash sen support in schools.

My town is being overtaken with overt criminal activity. Illegal cigarettes, money laundering business, violent crime on the increase, known drug dealers, fly tipping, etc. Nothing is done. It's just a never ending thing, they bust one and another pops up.

I've always fought against the tide of racist idiots, using politics as an excuse for violent riots. I live in a multi-cutural town, chose a very multicultural school for my kids. But I can't continue to argue with the people pointing out the rise in crimes, drugs, exploitation etc which is very visibily linked to immigration. I feel so uneasy about acknowledging how I feel about this! Guilty and a bit embarrassed. I've always been live and let live, whereas now I feel more protective, more cynical, less tolerant.

I am also gender critical and very much in favour of single sex spaces, based on biological sex. This has been a slow thing too. I've witnessed the language around women changing (cervix owner, pregnant person, chest feeding etc). I've witnessed our spaces and groups being invaded by biological men (I don't want a man on the other side of the curtain to me in a women's hospital ward, or a bra changing cubicle, or a swimming changing room.

Does anyone else feel like they are completely re-evaluating what they accept/don't accept, and what they stand for politically?

I don't currently feel there is any one political party that aligns with my ideals.

I may or may not get completely flamed, but I'm curious on other's thoughts. I will check back intermittently but I don't live on my phone/mumsnet.

This is not a troll post. I've been a mn user for over 18 years.

This thread is like a weird tragi- comedy

A few years ago I wouldn't have found it funny because when people are calling you a coconut, it's hard to find the humour in the situation.

So maybe I've changed ...or it's changed

Anyway, I remember as far back as Gordon Brown calling a lady in Rochdale a bigot - totally unfairly. People have been silenced for such a long time.

But what's amusing is that people seem to think "I am left-wing therefore I must be a good person". Just… What? 😂 😂😂 a lot of posts feel like people saying "I'm not left-wing anymore and I'm freaked out about it". It's not your moral compass. From looking at this thread, in many cases, it seems to be a political position that people didn't think through.

Left and right wing have been fairly meaningless as labels for quite some time (to me) but certain people seem very willing to hold onto them. I suppose that is partly because in their minds they want to be clear that they are good people and to them that means being left-wing.

I recently left London and now back in Essex where I spent my teenage years.

I actually had a white neighbour banging on about how there wasn't enough diversity in the area the other day. When you're not white, it's very difficult to have the conversation. But I just do not understand how someone can be complaining like this.

Would the same person go to Asia or Africa and complain that there aren't enough white people?

I'm not a fan of the labels, if there's a competition for crazy going on, I think the left have won that!

Anyway, it would be really nice if politicians just cracked on with the things that matter to people and affect their daily lives, but as long as people are keen to hold onto their ideology, it won't happen.

I'm glad if people are seeing the ways in which they have been unrealistic. But I also blame them for the mess we're in now. I remember going to work after the Gillian Duffy incident and people were calling her a bigot. So unreasonable.

If concerns are squashed for the better parts for 20 years, what do people think is going to happen?

editing to add - I have also voted for different parties throughout my life.

This is an excellent post, completely agree.

To paraphrase an old saying: if you're not left wing when you're young at some point you lack a heart, if you're still left wing when you get older you lack a brain.

@User135644 you say that you can see the liberalism dripping away from the students

If that's happening a lot, then that is really good news. I was more open about my political opinions when I was younger. I'm 49. It was more acceptable to express concerns about certain things when I was in my early 20s. Or maybe that's just the circles I was in, I can't be sure.

One thing people told me when I was in my 20s was not to worry and that certain groups would integrate. Here I am nearly 30 years later. Spoiler alert - a lot of of them didn't integrate!

@LakieLady Keir Starmer took Tony Blair's government to court to give illegal immigrants the right to claim benefits and won under the human rights laws.
Really, ** ? When was this, please?

I never posted that- you have the wrong poster.

This is one of those dominant narrative things which when they collapse people just kind of shake it off.

A lot of rhetoric was aimed at people to make sure it didn’t happen.

Students tend to live in inner city cheap housing. Traditionally working class. These areas have been destroyed by irresponsible immigration from incompatible cultures and they get a massive culture shock
The good immigration of skilled professionals move to nice areas.

@User135644 yes but as an excellent Londoner, I have found that people will continue to spout nonsense even after the area they're living in has gone horribly wrong.

maybe we're just at a tipping point generally - about 22 years too late!

if I sound bitter, it's because I am. I actually had a dream that one of my favourite places now looks like one of my least favourite places...

@EasternStandard do you mean like how some people will just pretend that they never supported lockdown or just pretend that it never happened? I tend to hide from news post lockdown so I'm not sure if the mad narrative of the last 20+ years really is collapsing.

@BedlingtonWillowMost people do manage it though. The ones who don’t either put too many barriers up or are ok on pip or similar out of work benefits. We definitely have too many unemployed young people and far too many saying they are ill. Why do we have so many more than other comparable countries? They even have Insurance payments for health care on top of tax! Maybe that’s what we should do as it seems to lessen the numbers not working. There are jobs. However people need an education to get them and some aren’t interested. The ones who bother do well enough.

It is a 20 year narrative. I'm not sure it's collapsing yet, but this thread might be an inkling. Mn has always been very against any of this kind of discussion and used insult to shut it down.

That this has just been a thread without that seems to be a change at least.

BTW, I meant to say ex Londoner
Not "excellent Londoner" 😂😂😂

My son and partner went to Warsaw. One striking difference was how clean it was. Another how safe it felt walking around in at night.

I hadn't thought about it but I've felt safer abroad in some places.

There are jobs. However people need an education to get them and some aren’t interested
Im sorry but this is shite.
There are thousands of kids leaving higher education and applying for everything. The opportunities are just so few and far between. Aside from which, in the past young people who were not nessecarily academic could access work. Now, even to get a job in a supermarket, it’s personality tests, situational tests, and even if passed they will likely not get an interview. My youngest is in college in the final year. Someone came to talk to them about next steps. They were told that in there subject there are 3 apprenticeships in the entire country. They were then advised to apply to university. ( it’s a vocational course)… so they can get 60k in debt and THEN be unemployed.
Im sick sbout the raw deal our kids have been given. It’s high time the government put them front and centre and stopped kissing the arses of the old. And by the way my 76 year old mother said the same!

I am curious, when people say they have always been left wing, what do they really mean?

It can't have been for that long? Because it was perfectly normal for people on the left to want to limit immigration, or be out of the EU.

How is it that the opposite of those those ideas have come to define what it means to be "left"?

I do think a huge part of the inner turmoil people are feeling is because they bought into the story, not oly that the left is "good." but also that people on the right all believe in greed, bigotry, and selfishness.

I would like to think that if the penny has dropped that the left may be in the wrong sometimes, maybe that narrative about the right is also incorrect or simplistic?

I could have written this myself. @Lookuptotheskies YANBU at all, and I completely agree with everything you say. I was 'Labour til I die' too, right up to about a decade ago. (Corbyn ruined it for me, dreadful man.)

I am so pleased that the huge majority of posters agree with you too. (According to the poll. I haven't read all of the posts.) I have got so sick of the left/far left ruling (especially when it comes to the media/press/TV/social media/comedians/world of celebrity etc,) and it's so refreshing to see the tide turning.

Ironically as they consider themselves so “kind” and right on the left are pretty authoritarian. I definitely don’t feel I can really say what I think about some things now and I’ve never felt like that before in my life. Don’t know if it’s me that’s changed or the political climate.

OP don’t feel guilty for having a normal instinctive reaction to a significant drop in standards and civility, you’re seeing what many of us have been noticing for a while now and you’re right we don’t have a political home at the moment.

But another year or so of decline and decay may bring a new perspective.

One thing is for certain, if these trends continue the country will be unrecognisable and unrecoverable in 5 years.

Firstly, I think immigration is too big and complex an issue to be left in the hands of a single government based on an assumed five-year term: it should be the responsibility of a cross-party or neutral long-term working group, made up of a combination of experts, civil servants and MPs. Uncontrolled immigration wasn't a problem that happened overnight and it won't be solved that way.

Secondly, and this is my unpopular opinion, I think the UK should implement a mandatory ID scheme. Practically every other European country has one in place and the fact that the UK does not is one of the reasons why it's an attractive destination for those with nefarious intent.

At the moment, unless you have a driving licence or a passport (and not even all UK citizens do, because they're expensive and can be difficult to obtain), you have no instant way of verifying your identity.

“But what's amusing is that people seem to think "I am left-wing therefore I must be a good person". Just… What? 😂 😂😂 a lot of posts feel like people saying "I'm not left-wing anymore and I'm freaked out about it". It's not your moral compass. From looking at this thread, in many cases, it seems to be a political position that people didn't think through.”

@EmeraldRoulette - this is probably true of me and a fair criticism. I mean I try to be a good person and I try to see the good in other people too.

Maybe I’ve been an idiot (e.g. other previous post about hearts and brains).

I’m sick of governments sucking up to voters. We need to run the country better. That means making our tax system really efficient, cutting freebies to people who don’t need them, deporting immigrants who add nothing to our country, things like that.

The outcry about winter fuel was farcical. What £35k a year pensioner needs it? They need to restrict it to those with income under £20k. They need to get rid of the ludicrous 60% marginal rate of tax, give everyone free childcare and child benefit and increase the top rate of tax to pay for it, they need to scrap stamp duty and increase council tax to pay for it, they need to ditch the pensions triple lock. All of these things would massively improve the financial state of this country. I voted for Labour hoping they were intelligent enough to crack on with these policies that economists across the board were crying out for. And yet no, they’re too scared of the electorate. It’s pathetic. This country is sunk.

It does feel it could be too late very soon. All the attacks and insults to stop the topic being discussed, such an own goal.

Except in a democracy its impossible not to suck up to the voter. If you don't you won't be elected and somebody who does suck up will be.

Many will continue to spout nonsense, but a lot of the time the big proponents of mass immigration are either rich people who benefit from that (and live away from it in nice areas). Or Lib Dem types out in the countryside who again are well away from it.

Ask anyone working class who actually have to deal with it and they'll tell you straight (more than likely). Yet the above will call them racist. It's all so unfair what the politicians and the liberals have done to this country.

MN has always been against this kind of discussion

And now women are more unsafe than ever in their own country.

Suicidal empathy. This is where liberalism has ended up.

'left wing' has been hijacked by middle class liberals with their 'refugees welcome', 'open the borders' 'TWAW' destructiveness. More interested in going out to cities protesting about Palestine than what's going on here.

Left wing, traditionally, was primarily about economic fairness and worker's rights which is what the traditional Labour movement was about pre New Labour. But the socially liberal have destroyed the reputation of the left with all their woke bullshit and left many in the country turning further to the right as a result, who would have traditionally voted Labour in the past.