To feel like I'm not sure where I sit politically anymore, and to worry about it.

[Lookuptotheskies]

I've always been a staunch Labour voter. Always been pro refugees. Always given people the benefit of the doubt. Always felt okay that I've brought innocent kids into the world.

Labour are making cuts to disability benefits (and in turn, carer benefits). They are looking to slash sen support in schools.

My town is being overtaken with overt criminal activity. Illegal cigarettes, money laundering business, violent crime on the increase, known drug dealers, fly tipping, etc. Nothing is done. It's just a never ending thing, they bust one and another pops up.

I've always fought against the tide of racist idiots, using politics as an excuse for violent riots. I live in a multi-cutural town, chose a very multicultural school for my kids. But I can't continue to argue with the people pointing out the rise in crimes, drugs, exploitation etc which is very visibily linked to immigration. I feel so uneasy about acknowledging how I feel about this! Guilty and a bit embarrassed. I've always been live and let live, whereas now I feel more protective, more cynical, less tolerant.

I am also gender critical and very much in favour of single sex spaces, based on biological sex. This has been a slow thing too. I've witnessed the language around women changing (cervix owner, pregnant person, chest feeding etc). I've witnessed our spaces and groups being invaded by biological men (I don't want a man on the other side of the curtain to me in a women's hospital ward, or a bra changing cubicle, or a swimming changing room.

Does anyone else feel like they are completely re-evaluating what they accept/don't accept, and what they stand for politically?

I don't currently feel there is any one political party that aligns with my ideals.

I may or may not get completely flamed, but I'm curious on other's thoughts. I will check back intermittently but I don't live on my phone/mumsnet.

This is not a troll post. I've been a mn user for over 18 years.

I am curious about why people feel guilty about thinking that immigration can be a problem?

Surely there is a huge gap between understanding how many newcomers affect the economy, and having a personal problem with people? We don't expect to be able to swan off to Japan and work and live and vote, do we?

Or is it just seeing tha crime seems in some cases to be driven by immigration? That's not really new though, police forces have been aware for many years that organised crime is mainly controlled by ethnically defined groups.

I've washed my hands of the lot of them. Self serving for the most part.

I feel the same way. I have always identified as a Labour Party supporter but now I feel a bit lost.

however, I am not British (although I have lived here for a long time) and I am starting to think there are some fundamental flaws with U.K. society and policies that have led to where we are.

e.g. an NHS where everything is free - great idea, but not when some people are having appointments every week - not necessarily because they need them, but because they can.

e.g. no social contract - so people want benefits etc from the state but don’t want the state to tell them what to do - which means we all have to tolerate rubbish being dumped everywhere, pavements smeared with dog shit, noise pollution, etc.

I was born in the uk and visit yearly.
I visited in June and was horrified… the centre of the Northern City I visit was over -run with homeless people in tents and aggressive beggars. Family members have witnessed knife crime.
I know homelessness is a complex issue but the extent was appalling.
I am also left wing.
I think many years of austerity has damaged Britain.
The aggressive beggars and the homeless people were overwhelmingly white and British.
I love the UK but I am not sure that the UK can come back from this.
I watched a Chanel 4 documentary about shoplifting and phone snatching. The police don’t want to even deal with it. It’s appalling.
I think the UK needs to spend much much more on policing.
The appalling cost of housing must play a part as well as population increases.
I also think there is huge government indifference to the North of the uk.

Yes. Same here and these potential tax rises ahead will be the straw that breaks the camels back for me

I'll always be left wing liberal and no party has ever been left enough for me since John Smith died. I've voted Labour, Lib Dem and Green and will never, ever vote Conservative or Reform.

I think this is just part of growing up. You develop a more nuanced and independent outlook rather than blind party loyalty. Every political party has factions and individual MPs and they don’t all have exactly the same opinion on everything, and neither do voters. You’ll never find a political party where every single MP thinks exactly the same as you do about every single issue.

I’ve actually stopped voting for the party which most closely aligns to my views because they will never win where I live, so I actually vote to keep the party I dislike the most out.

It’s a benefit of maturity, IMO, to understand that pragmatism outweighs idealism.

I would say no right-minded intelligent individual ever agreed with 100% of a specific party and 0% of everybody else. Surely it’s always been a case of I agree with this policy of this party and this policy of this other party and then looking at the specific party leadership to aid deciding what is more important to me at the time of voting. I have in my time voted conservative, labour, green and liberal.

The thing is a lot of the issues you describe happened under a right wing government

I think if you read the manifesto of the party you support, there will be things in it you agree with, and things you don’t. I am a dyed in the wool Conservative (seems a rarity on these pages) but that doesn’t mean I think everything they have done is right by a long way! And it doesn’t mean, either, that I might not vote for another party in the future. People’s ideas change - and a lot of politics on both sides comes down to the art of the possible.

The quality of life in this country has massively fallen but that has nothing to do with immigration.

I would say your views are probably representative of most women (and men).

What you have described is a very common viewpoint, compassionate, caring, but concerned about obvious issues that are easy to see anywhere.

Nothing to feel ashamed about, Politics doesn't need to be extreme, and you don't need to let any side make you feel guilty.

I can see those on the more left side demonizing you for your views on immigration...

I can see those on the more right side demonizing you for your views on benefits...

So what? You know what you think, and any honest person has a mix of views, and is unlikely to fit 100% into a perfect political box. So don't let them feel guilt you into expressing or voting for things you don't like.

I share your feelings @Lookuptotheskies but from the perspective of someone that has voted Conservative as many times as they voted Labour.

I want good public services, protection for the sick, disabled, great education and preventative healthcare and enabling people to work. Benefits should be a genuine safety net for those that need them but not an easy option out for those that can’t be arsed.

I don’t support millions off work with untreated mental health conditions, high immigration, chucking endless money at a broken NHS. I think the NHS should only cater for essentials, we can’t afford for it to cover absolutely everything for everyone which means hard choices on things like fertility. People should have access to a dentist and excellent cancer care. No-one “needs” a baby funded by public services.

I am proudly gender critical and hate having to hide it at work because I work in HE which is full of woke wankery.

I do want us to properly fund defence. I do want them to “stop the boats” but I also want people who are genuinely persecuted to be safe. I just don’t think the thousands of unvetted men that have passed through many safe countries before arriving here are.

I think if you come to any country to live (and that incudes Brits that go to Spain!) should fully integrate. If you want to live like they do in Aghanistan, go to Afghanistan - don’t try to recreate it in England. I work in Leicester and it’s absolutely horrifying seeing how women and girls are treated for “cultual reasons”. I deal with students at risk of FGM, family violence and forced marriage every bloody week at work and it is creating an absolute rage in me that we are allowing it.

I don’t get anything from Labour or the Conservatives that gives me any confidence whatsoever. I don’t think I’d vote Reform but maybe I would if it meant some actual change. But I also want us to do far more, much quicker to prioritise the environment, all the mainstream parties are just paying lip service to it and are heavily influenced by the fossil fuel industry.

I think my views are pretty centrist and I want a genuinely caring and compassionate society. But that does mean saying No sometimes and I feel like the left are on another planet where we need to say Yes to
bloody everything.

Politically homeless for sure. If there was an election tomorrow I’m at a loss as to how I’d vote.

I agree. We're importing poverty unfortunately.
I come from immigrant parents who came here in the 60's. My grandparents were orphan refugees who's parents were killed in the Armenian genocide early 1900's. Grandad orphaned went to Palestine when it was a country that Christians and Muslims lived together in relative peace. Grandmother was adopted in Jordan. Armenian born in Turkey but Christian although she had many Muslim ways. She was adopted by the dressmaker of the wife of King Hussain at the time. At some point grandad went to Jordan. Probably tensions were brewing between Muslims and Christians. Those days religions had to be stated on passports so identifying religions of individuals was easy. Making it easier for them to be persecuted. Having thought they were saved I suppose just to be uprooted again. Grandad went to Jordan where he met my grandmother. Both were in their late teens by then. Hence life must have been good to some extent. Relatively as everything is relative. They married and had three kids there. My mum was the youngest born in 1946 who sadly passed away in 2024 at 77. I think the period she was born was around the Arab spring. These were Palestinans who once got bigger in numbers in Jordan wanted to take over and make it a Muslim country. My history is not read up on. Just going by my family history so fact check by all means. Anyway, when my mother was 12 years old the whole family moved to Cyprus when the British were there trying to keep the peace between the Turkish and Greeks as the Greeks in Cyprus have also had many slaughtered. Turkish wanted their land back apparently going back to the Ottoman Empire. I know this is really long but there's no quick way say it. Hope you haven't lost the plot :-) So after my grandparents and family were there for 6years, by then my mum was 18 years old. They immigrated here. They were not what you would call educated so struggled to get by here. My mum married an Armenian man who was 20years older. He was an Armenian Cypriot. I suppose he was also an orphan from the Armenian genocide who ended up here looking for a better life no doubt.i never asked because my mum divorced him after 6years. By the time I was 8 my mum remarried an English man. We had a terrible childhood with him as our dad. Grew up in abject poverty on the rough side of town. All nations in London is where I grew up. I've seen what poverty does to people. Ultimately now, I think we're full in this country. Western families are having less children while immigrants legal and illegal especially of certain religions are very family oriented. Language is a big barrier too. My nan was here for nearly 20years and hardly spoke a word of English. I'm torn between empathy and practicalities. The tragedy is people come here for a better life and for those from war torn countries its better than the fate that they might have had but its still a poor life. In the next 10years it's estimated that there will be 20 million more people in this country. How can this be sustained. Also there won't be enough water for everyone as the resoviours are low already. Water will have to be rationed, along with everything else. We're already in a housing crisis. It was Tony Blair who opened the borders. Keir Starmer took Tony Blair's government to court to give illegal immigrants the right to claim benefits and won under the human rights laws. The Conservative's couldn't really do much about that one tbh. I dread the future for the younger generations in this country. Especially these born and bred here. We've got to stop over sentimentalising and think of our kids futures in my opinion. I'm voting reform. Not because I'm racist but because they are the only party that will have a fair immigration system point driven like it was before no matter where in the world you come from. The subject of illegal immigration is something else. And should be even tougher.
We're letting our bleeding hearts stop us from thinking with our heads and the future of our kids. Saying all of that, no government can deliver everything it sets out to. They are always in between a rock and a hard place. Although I do think Labour is to be trusted the least. I'm grateful to be born here, as are many children of immigrants but the younger generations of a certain demographic have been brain washed and have so much hatred for the country they were born in. They're just waiting to be enough in numbers so they can have an uprising. Religion does have a big role to play in it for them. This will become an Islamic country one day. Same as many other countries which grew in numbers and everyone had to convert. I pray I don't live to see it 🙏

I used to think this too but I’m sorry I just don’t agree anymore. Is it racist to miss and want the U.K. to be how it used to be? I don’t know - but I feel racist even thinking it. Villages have just been joined together with ugly new housing developments everywhere to cope with the need for more houses. Many city centres are now unrecognisable. The city I am from used to be proudly and beautifully multicultural but it’s now neither of those things. It’s a hole.

Some cultures don’t seem to assimilate. The treatment of Jess Philips by some of her constituents was terrifying. If the numbers change so those communities are the majority then vote in their candidates who enter parliament then what? I don’t want my daughters living under sharia law.

So the crime is totally down to the immigrants? Do you mean recent immigrants or people whose families arrives within thee last 80 years? Did your children make friends with any immigrants in their school?

I completely get this. I don’t think I’ll vote again. At least not for a while. What is the point? Not one party does what they say they’ll do. They lie, make promises they break. They right wing act like left wing then they left act right. Neither Labour or cons represent me and I’d never vote reform so I’m just going to get on with life and hope for the best as I no longer feel my contribution to the vote matters at all.

The conversation around immigration has been stifled for so long because voicing any anti-immigration sentiment, no matter how nuanced has automatically = racism. Except now we are in a situation where it’s clear that immigration is an issue, and Reform are now rubbing their hands with glee as so many people have been pushed towards them because the bigger parties have sleepwalked their way into this and are only now realising that something does need to be done.

I think the vast majority of people are pro-immigration in many, even most, circumstances, but we have to acknowledge we have a problem with economic migration, which manifests in high numbers of unskilled young men, who tend to be higher risk in terms of criminal activity, and certain cultural sort of pockets with communities who are not interested in integrating or contributing to the country particularly. Branding the above as racist is how Reform have now got such a big following. People who ordinarily would have been pretty core Labour voters have been pushed towards the other side by the long-running refusal to acknowledge the problems around immigration.

I agree with you, OP, I have been what I would call left wing, a pretty staunch Labour voter my whole life. Now? I’ve no idea. I won’t vote Reform but I also don’t feel the kind of fear about them I might have 10 years ago.

I'm first generation here. Nobody is saying all immigration is responsible for crime. I believe the sentiment is that its poverty that is the driving factor. It was a case of demand and supply but now it's supply and demand. It's totally unsustainable. Read my earlier post before you call me a racist. I know many convicted criminals and all of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Why don't you look at the prison statistics? No point in being defensive about facts. Whether someone has been friends with immigrants or not is neither here nor there right now considering the state of everything in this country.

People have been trying to say this for years, but have been branded fascists and right wing nutters, hateful, phobic and bigots. It's actually been obvious for some time And yeah I used to vote left wing, my whole life, stopped around 5 years ago when I saw what way the wind was blowing. Obviously, couldn't vote Tory at that time either. Mumsnetters have been screaming LIAR LIAR LIAR BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT for years every time I stated I was always a left wing voter who changed my beliefs given the information available.

The two parties are not actually very far apart at all, neither cares much at all about the people of the UK, both are fine with mass immigration, and all the other globalist stuff people have been trying to warn about for years.

It's too late tbh, the UK is in a dowward spiral and its not coming back from it.

Vote with who you want. If you want to vote reform then vote for them.

I agree and think to myself that if this is how I’m beginning to feel, god knows how other folks are feeling. The tories and Labour Party are handing what’s left of our country to Reform and that just can’t be the answer.

I’ve voted Labour all of my life. But my town is becoming unrecognisable and unsafe. I don’t feel comfortable walking alone myself anymore and my DH sits in the car and watches me while I run round the park. I think we have been bonkers to think that people from third world countries will arrive on our shores and magically rid themselves of third world views (it’s so unrealistic). You’re talking about men coming from countries where women are attacked and killed for things like honour and shame and then expecting them to treat western women differently.

Yes bury your head in the sand 😂

John Smith. What a loss he was. Being idealistic in the 90’s I was swept up in New Labour, it felt like such a hopeful time. While they did make some decent decisions, and made progress in Northern Ireland, some of their actions around the NHS and the war in Iraq - not so good. And they obviously encouraged huge inflows of Russian cash into London, which raised its own issues and the financial crash didn’t help either.
I don’t think Cameron’s austerity policies ever left us. I heard Mick Lynch speak last year and he said we still live under the blanket of Thatcherism, where the individual is key.
I am a centrist, usually left-leaning. My background is in economics, and so that is why my thoughts go to first. My heart wants to help everyone, but my head knows it’s unsustainable.
I struggle with the trans movement in terms of its erosion of women’s rights.
My city is a swathe of vape shops. Independent stores are a thing of the past. I do understand concerns about boat crossings. The recent scandal of grooming gangs, which is actually a long history of abuse of young girls, is a concern. The fact that the perpetrators are walking free, the ones who have left prison, is a worry.
Full prisons are also a concern.
I am disabled and the current narrative around benefits has left me not sleeping. And I do know a few people who are circumventing the system.
I have no desire to follow Corbyn’s new party.
I feel sickened by the rise in anti-semitism. But I also understand the fury over the treatment of the citizens of Gaza. There is a huge difference between taking out Hamas leaders and shooting at innocent, starving people in a food queue.
The people of Ukraine seem to have been forgotten. People in the Post Office scandal are still waiting for compensation, and those who plundered state funds for their own ends seemingly got away with it.
The area where I live is a Labour stronghold, but I know people who are turning to Reform.
All I have are questions with no answers.