Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[AWanderingFool]

Thread Two for The Salt Path and Raynor Winn/Sally Walker/Sally Winn discussions.

Thread One is here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

I can't see the point in researching her background- marriage etc.
It's enough to know the name she uses now is a pseudonym- common enough amongst writers although most are open about it. She's Sally Walker and he's Tim. Where they were born, married etc is not important.

It's also not necessary to hijack the thread by discussing that some illnesses are not visible and symptoms can vary day to day.

We're all adults. We know this.

However, given 9 consultant neurologists have commented on Moth's illness and say it's not credible, it's worth listening (but also have an open mind because no one has spoken to HIS consultant as far as we know.)

We don't know what her agent takes. They're all different.
And taxes- she could have set up a limited company and some profits are in dividends etc.

I also feel uneasy about it. Because so much stigma, judgement, and criticism is laid at the feet of people with disabilities. People on this thread have said, hang on, don't judge because a photo suggests Tim/Moth/Ray looks in good health. And they're right. In an ordinary scenario this would be callous and cruel. It's what people with disabilities face every single day.

However, the only reason it's being questioned is because of what Sally/Raynor has written and said. Through her writing she is directly causing people with disabilities to question themselves, and for society to question them.

So ultimately I feel rather angry about it. Fair enough, a consultant may have said they thought Tim Walker had an illness called CBD but that there wasn't a test for it, and they wouldn't be able to say for sure until post-mortem.

But it's eighteen years on. Sally Walker has said he's been crippled by his symptoms, then they've gone on long, arduous walks and his condition's improved. Not only that, she says he's had scans that show that previously recorded brain degeneration has reversed, and to the extent that his scans are normal!

This is reprehensible. It gives people false hope. It goes a long way towards people feeling guilty that they haven't exercised enough, or that they haven't encouraged loved ones to exercise. And it gives the most judgemental in society fuel to attack people with disabilities with.

If indeed he has a consultant. Thanks to The Observer journalist's digging we now really don't know which other parts of this 'true story' are fact and which are fiction.

I really enjoyed the film, I like "stories about nothing" as my dad calls them. Quite Ian McEwan-y in parts with all the introspection and looking over nice views.

I did wonder why (the fuck) his name was Moth, I spent the whole film thinking it was Moss short for Amos but the fact it's basically a middle class couple who have made up hippy names to sound earthy is just the cherry on top of this whole story for me.

I think the cousin-cum-loanshark thing is absolutely bonkers and when you read the 18% interest thing I do wonder whether that was the original grift (they were going to canoe to Panama or similar) and they bit off more than they could chew when the debt was then sold on.

A big part of me is very impressed at people who have the absolute audacity to pull stuff like this off, I can't get angry really and just think "fair play to them". I literally broke down in tears when I got searched at a "no outside food" music festival and found to be smuggling in a couple of ham cobs.

A voice of reason that will probably get lost in the cries for mob justice ! Keep sticking it to the man with yer cobs !!

She does have a limited company - Four Hares ltd

15% on domestic sales is fairly standard, but foreign sales and film/tv rights are usually higher at 20%, though you’re right, reliably best-selling authors usually negotiate better deals, so it’s not across the board. But, RW being a debut author with TSP, that was probably the standard agency contract.

For those feeling sorry for the apparently saintly Jason Isaacs being duped by this pair of grifters - he too has form for lying / embellishing his past. In particular, his (repeated) claim of being a 'professional skateboarder' in his youth, and of 'doing demos and being in magazines'.

Details here if you want to go down the rabbit hole:
https://ukskateforum.co.uk/t/jason-isaacs/4829/1

Are you not concerned about the people who were stolen from or scammed?

Tbh the part that angers me the most is them openly stealing from shops and not paying at campsites. That and the mocking of ordinary people they met along their walk.

It says everything you need to know about them. Vile.

It is pretty much industry standard for literary agents to take 20% for overseas sales and 15% domestic. Plus VAT. (I actually got my 20% and 15% confused there, for some reason I thought domestic sales were now 20% too, hence the edit!)

And earned over six years.

Edited to add— not aimed at you—accidentally quotes you!

@distinctpossibility ”A big part of me is very impressed at people who have the absolute audacity to pull stuff like this off, I can't get angry really and just think "fair play to them". I literally broke down in tears when I got searched at a "no outside food" music festival and found to be smuggling in a couple of ham cobs.”

I feel your pain.

Grow up, go and make a post about how terrible the Mail is if you want to talk about that. This story broke in The Observer, it's got nothing to do with the Mail or with your purity spiral.

I think poking round their birth and marriage records is fine. It’s information that’s in the public domain.

In the spirit of which, someone said upthread that Sally claimed to be an only child. She’s not. She’s got an older sister.

You think "fair play" when someone has stolen £64,000 from a family business?

It's sad that my scepticism about anyone who makes a mint by fooling others is going the way I view AI/Chat Gpt. I never know if it's true or not.

They were married in Portree on the Isle of Skye, so you won’t find their marriage in the England and Wales marriage registers! www.heraldscotland.com/news/18714249.raynor-winn-life-salt-path/

Absolutely agree, but I guess what I'm saying is that he probably is unwell (though likely not with the condition they have claimed) and she will use this as a deflection for the other accusations, probably with the angle that the stress and upset of this whole thing is having a huge impact on his health.

But it's hard to talk about this - which rightly needs discussing for all the reasons you eloquently outline AWanderingFool - without crossing a line and making unhelpful assumptions that contribute to a wider atmosphere of judgement and shame.

My understanding is that the "embezzlees" got their money back years ago - that was what the loan from the cousin fella paid for. I understand that being scammed can take a toll on a person, of course I do, they trusted her. But they are getting to see karma play out now. The cousiny loan shark isn't really relevant to me; anyone who has bailiffs a finger-snap away and £120k to loan out on a whim is asking for trouble tbh.

And I don't massively feel sorry for people who bought the book and raffle ticket, there can't have been many of them and it was probably, what, a tenner?

Obviously if (and imho it is still a big if) they have lied about CBD then that's despicable. We can all hope it doesn't damage to reputation, if you like, of those with invisible or fluctuating illnesses.

I'd normally agree with you.

However, these are people who've escaped from a criminal past by using different names, so I think it's reasonable for anyone to want to check the veracity of them actually being Sally and Tim Walker.

Not only that but whilst it's perfectly normal for writers to take up pen names using other family names, it's somewhat less usual for a spouse to completely change his name too. When asked about the name Moth, Sally Walker said his real first name was Ray, which was a lie. It's now obvious she was trying to hide who they really were

So, taking that into account, I'm okay with digging into public records to check them both out.

Getting your money paid back is not the same as never losing it in the first place. This was a prolonged crime, stealing over many years. It betrayed trust and friendship and took from a family business

I believe that he has some kind of medical condition, but that they are vastly over egging the conclusion that he was ‘cured by walking/getting back to nature/toiling in the land’ and that the more likely reason for his unexpectedly good health is that his diagnosis is wrong.

That's a fair point