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Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

1000 replies

AWanderingFool · 06/07/2025 21:10

Thread Two for The Salt Path and Raynor Winn/Sally Walker/Sally Winn discussions.

Thread One is here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

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47
QuantumLevelActions · 07/07/2025 08:01

PullTheBricksDown · 06/07/2025 23:06

Have you read Cheryl Strayed's Wild? Read it if not (or go back to it, if you have). To my knowledge there's no controversy about her and I found her hiking story very uplifting, particularly because she was frank in it about not being perfect and wrote about various bad decisions she'd made. Not all authors are like this. Others will inspire you again.

I second this recommendation, Wild is a brilliant book.

DiamondThrone · 07/07/2025 08:03

That piece in the Observer will have been legalled hard by their inhouse team before it was published. So there must be proof of what they stated.

And the piece hinted at a lot more things, that they can't state outright for fear of being sued.

Much more will come out about this couple, you can bet. Now people are looking more closely at their past, and their claims...

Tourist29 · 07/07/2025 08:03

I remember seeing the One Show, she was very cagey when asked about the debt, Jason Isaacs said something like “she won’t talk about it but I will, they were ripped off” then there was a link to Moth who was “too ill be there” and Jason Isaac burst into tears - came across as a right old thesp. I was lent the book and was cynical, very glad I didn’t buy it. Brilliant journalism by the Observor.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 07/07/2025 08:04

Comet33 · 07/07/2025 07:58

his progression wasn’t as expected, they would have seen enough medical people to have had someone say ‘I don’t think this is CBD'

In reality, this is not how it works in hospitals/with doctors, particular with rare illnesses or ones that are atypical, or not well known.

When admitted, doctors treat the symptoms and a patient may not even see a consultant in the specialism in which the illness falls.

Your statement also relies on an assumption of continuity of care which just doesn't happen in the NHS anymore. Its easy for people with common chronic illnesses to fall through gaps, be missed, etc, let alone one as rare or as specialist as CBD.

Doctors in hospital don't have the time or capacity to do much more than fix someone up and send them home as soon as possible. There might be the odd question raised, or the need to do a further test but following them up relies on people being (a) willing to do so (b) not forgetting (c) not assuming it's someone else's responsibility (d) agreeing

I've witnessed time & time again all of the above.

Furthermore, if Moth's own consultants recognise the atypicality of his illness, he's likely to still remain under their care. They might not change his diagnosis because they have nothing to change it to, so they manage it based on the diagnosis of exclusion they've reached. With severe & rare diseases, both patient and doctor can be feeling their way through.

In the books, Raynor talks about how Moth's health defies the pattern of the illness and medical expectation. Simply because they've been found to have hidden the details of their lives before homelessness, and Raynor's theft, doesn't mean that they're also lying about his illness.

Yes, the veracity of their story is thrown into question, but I am deeply uncomfortable with (a) assuming it's all lies (b) second-guessing Moth's health and his appearance.

People with chronic, severe, medical conditions often face disbelief because they don't present as unwell in the way that uninformed members of the public think they should. The resulting narrative causes a lot of harm to people with disabilities and severe health conditions. I urge everyone to be careful when expressing disbelief and assuming further deceit because there's a fine line between shock & questioning and feeding into a narrative which results in the ill and disable being denied support and medical care.

When you see someone - anyone - with a long term health condition, you see them on their better days. You don't see the pain, fatigue or all the many steps and time & effort invested to enable them to be present at that time.

You won't see the after-effects of expending the energy to be present either.

This is the same narrative that leads people to be challenged over the right to a blue badge, or PIP. The same narrative that leads to people with disabilities being denied reasonable adjustments at work because it's "not fair" to their abled colleagues. That's even if they can find a job in the first place.

I thought when I read the observer article how irresponsible it was to include the statements from neurologists saying Moth's health didn't fit with what they knew of CBD, which isn't to say it shouldn't have been said - someone was going to do it. There are enough people with direct experience of CBD on social media as well.

I'm as disappointed and shocked with the revelations as anyone - their story meant a lot to me, too - but this shouldn't become a witch hunt and if we're seeking veracity then that means looking at the rest of the book fairly and without assuming guilt where there may be none.

Edited

I agree that we shouldn't judge based on appearance - those comments frustrated me.

And I want to believe no one is so awful as to lie about their illness and the miracle of their "unconventional" cure..

Sadly however the facts speak for themselves here:

  • firstly, multiple specialists in the condition have said it just isn't possible to be well so long after diagnosis (not "unlikely" but impossible). If they were aware of outliers they would have said so. I have a rare presentation of a rare disease, all the specialists are well aware that my experience is rare but they would never tell a newspaper it was impossible.
  • secondly, the Walkers were given a chance to respond to the article before it was published. They could have produced rebutting evidence. They could have gone to the court for an injunction. They did neither
ZiggyPlaysGuitarrr · 07/07/2025 08:06

AnnaQuayInTheUk · 07/07/2025 07:42

@outofofficeagain I know. I thought the same. What about family? Their parents, their siblings. They don't seem to have any sort of support network. Maybe they alienated everyone around them?

The second and third books answer a lot of the questions being asked (although I'm obviously questioning the veracity of everything now!):

Her mum died after the events depicted in The Salt Path. Her dad had died long before. She was an only child and a loner, preferring the company of nature. Her parents didn't like Moth as he was from a town and not a farmer; her relationship/marriage drove a real wedge between her and her family.

They met at college and a few years later eloped and married on Skye.

Not much was said about Moth's family, except that during the events in one of the books (I can't remember which) they stayed with his brother for a bit.

The son seems to have settled in Cornwall, the daughter is/was in London.

Moth had written pencilled notes in the guide book they used for the South West Coast Path. Later, as Raynor realised he was forgetting the walk, she typed up their story in secret, using the book and notes as a guide, and presented it to him for his birthday. Their daughter read it, thought it was rather good and urged her to try and get it published. She submitted the article that was published in the Big Issue; that gave her the confidence to approach literary agents.

AveriltheAvidReader · 07/07/2025 08:07

Not sure what point you're making @Comet33

Are you writing this as a doctor? Or someone with a limiting condition?

It doesn't mean they are lying about his illness- correct- BUT the journalist says she spoke to 9 expert neurologists who said his outcome at the moment was not what they would expect.

She does give him the benefit of the doubt- I think she uses the words 'miracles happen' , because clearly she doesn't want to say 'this is all lies as well'.

But if there are so many lies it's hard not to question his condition also.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 07/07/2025 08:08

DiamondThrone · 07/07/2025 08:03

That piece in the Observer will have been legalled hard by their inhouse team before it was published. So there must be proof of what they stated.

And the piece hinted at a lot more things, that they can't state outright for fear of being sued.

Much more will come out about this couple, you can bet. Now people are looking more closely at their past, and their claims...

Agree, there were a lot of pointers in the article to there being more of the story to tell.

I also felt that reading the book. Lots of bits that made me raise my eyebrows.

lovescats3 · 07/07/2025 08:10

they could be common law husband and wife

DiamondThrone · 07/07/2025 08:11

lovescats3 · 07/07/2025 08:10

they could be common law husband and wife

There's no such thing.

Notgiftednottalented · 07/07/2025 08:11

I already posted this, but no one would get a diagnosis like this without the clinical symptoms. It’s an extremely rare and obviously serious diagnosis which typically don’t respond to any medication. It’s simply ridiculous.

Comet33 · 07/07/2025 08:11

@Aspanielstolemysanity both fair points

@AveriltheAvidReader the point I'm making is there's a fine line between questioning and assuming guilt/a social media witch hunt. We all know the damage social media can do and I think we all bear responsibility to ensuring things don't become too inflammatory.

I'm also saying to be very careful how doubts are framed because much of the framing I'm seeing here harms others with chronic illnesses & disabilities.

ALPS100 · 07/07/2025 08:13

lovescats3 · 07/07/2025 08:10

they could be common law husband and wife

On page 3 @AldoGordo has posted marriage details

Pinty · 07/07/2025 08:13

AldoGordo · 06/07/2025 22:42

Quite possibly. Everything else I've read in the piece seems to check out as robust journalism. Things have been worded very carefully indeed to avoid any obvious accusation of libel. The facts are supported with evidence while the less certain things (ie the question of Moths illness) are merely raised as such. I suppose it could also depend how this spokesperson is defining "misleading" but I think they'll have a hard job showing how it could be.

The article said that they said the consultant said he had it for 7 years before the diagnosis. So that would make 18 years

LivelyCat · 07/07/2025 08:18

Aspanielstolemysanity · 07/07/2025 08:04

I agree that we shouldn't judge based on appearance - those comments frustrated me.

And I want to believe no one is so awful as to lie about their illness and the miracle of their "unconventional" cure..

Sadly however the facts speak for themselves here:

  • firstly, multiple specialists in the condition have said it just isn't possible to be well so long after diagnosis (not "unlikely" but impossible). If they were aware of outliers they would have said so. I have a rare presentation of a rare disease, all the specialists are well aware that my experience is rare but they would never tell a newspaper it was impossible.
  • secondly, the Walkers were given a chance to respond to the article before it was published. They could have produced rebutting evidence. They could have gone to the court for an injunction. They did neither

There are always outliers.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 07/07/2025 08:19

Comet33 · 07/07/2025 08:11

@Aspanielstolemysanity both fair points

@AveriltheAvidReader the point I'm making is there's a fine line between questioning and assuming guilt/a social media witch hunt. We all know the damage social media can do and I think we all bear responsibility to ensuring things don't become too inflammatory.

I'm also saying to be very careful how doubts are framed because much of the framing I'm seeing here harms others with chronic illnesses & disabilities.

Agree to a point, I have found the suggestion that you can tell whether or not someone is unwell from a photo incredibly upsetting. Lots of conditions are very invisible

But it is truly damning that they were given an to respond by the journalist and instead of producing medical evidence (or even warning her they had it) they just realised a vague statement through their lawyer about how the book reflects their "spiritual journey".

If he had CBD their lawyer would have had multiple ways she could have shut the article down. They wouldn't have just realised a waffly statement and let it be released as written.

Bruisername · 07/07/2025 08:22

I would imagine there is more to come out about their financial past and potentially further frauds. A lot of people will feel deeply uncomfortable buying the books of someone with her past but a lot won’t care and she’ll no doubt spin it

is he ill? It sounds like he is but perhaps his diagnosis is wrong. Who knows. I think the uncomfortable part here for me is

  1. given his ill health she encourages him to do these long walks and also do physical labour on their free farm - is that healthy for him?
  2. perhaps he has another condition where walking helps (no I don’t know of one myself) and so her stating he has CBD and improved through the walking is a form of medical fraud
mycatismyworld · 07/07/2025 08:22

Fandango52 · 07/07/2025 01:40

Timothy Walker was likely his birth name, and we found out from public records that her birth name is Sally Winn (it’s on the previous thread).

I've been unable to find any evidence of them marring on several genealogy sites. I'm. 100% Timothy ( or whatever his real name is) is from the West Midlands, and judging from his accent I'd say the Black Country. She says she's from Staffordshire but I doubt it.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 07/07/2025 08:22

LivelyCat · 07/07/2025 08:18

There are always outliers.

But then my second point applies. Their lawyer would have either

  • produced a much firmer rebuttal and warned the journalist they would face a defamation claim; or
  • provided evidence; or
  • sought a court injunction to stop publication
AgitatedGoose · 07/07/2025 08:23

Fandango52 · 06/07/2025 22:15

“They then have two days' rest before taking part in the London Marathon.” This bit seems absolutely bonkers - especially given their age, the fact they aren’t professional athletes and his CBD. I can’t believe this bit. I’m honestly really struggling to believe it.

I believe he got admitted to hospital whilst doing the Thames path walk and didn’t do the marathon. She completed it but took around seven hours so must have been walking not running.

TwiceForLunch · 07/07/2025 08:23

Matildalamp · 06/07/2025 21:54

@Aspanielstolemysanity
completely agree with your post on the first thread. It’s hard enough for people to get the care they need without all this miraculous cure stuff. Have you tried non-dairy/non-gluten/vegan/walking/cycling/eating spinach/not eating spinach/howling at the moon at 9.17pm on the second Tuesday of each month with five Saturdays? No, you haven’t? Are you even trying not to be ill? In fact can’t you just try that? Say, I’m not ill and you’ll be great! Where’s your willpower 🙄

Love this post.

Bruisername · 07/07/2025 08:23

mycatismyworld · 07/07/2025 08:22

I've been unable to find any evidence of them marring on several genealogy sites. I'm. 100% Timothy ( or whatever his real name is) is from the West Midlands, and judging from his accent I'd say the Black Country. She says she's from Staffordshire but I doubt it.

Someone on the other thread found birth certificates and a marriage certificate in Scotland. Ties in to what she has said in the books

Aspanielstolemysanity · 07/07/2025 08:24

mycatismyworld · 07/07/2025 08:22

I've been unable to find any evidence of them marring on several genealogy sites. I'm. 100% Timothy ( or whatever his real name is) is from the West Midlands, and judging from his accent I'd say the Black Country. She says she's from Staffordshire but I doubt it.

On the previous thread marriage records were found (in Scotland).
However, I do find this amateur sleuthing for their marriage records /birth records quite distasteful.

ZiggyPlaysGuitarrr · 07/07/2025 08:24

With regard to his CBD. My understanding (from the 3 books!) is that there's no test to diagnose it; rather the diagnosis is given upon presentation of certain symptoms, after tests have ruled other things out.

So it's not necessarily the case that they made that up.

It could be that they were told it was CBD, or likely to be CBD, after other conditions had been ruled out, but his long and relatively healthy life has cast the diagnosis into doubt, and perhaps they felt unable to say that after things had gone so far.

It could be that he does indeed have CBD and is an outlier who's doing much better than most (after all, averages are just that).

Surely the charity for CBD wouldn't have had him as a spokesperson without basic due diligence. I know from my own illness that all the charities I've received support from or had any involvement with have required ID and medical letters.

If it turns out that the CBD story is completely fictitious then that's absolutely despicable but let's not go in with the pitchforks just yet.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 07/07/2025 08:27

ZiggyPlaysGuitarrr · 07/07/2025 08:24

With regard to his CBD. My understanding (from the 3 books!) is that there's no test to diagnose it; rather the diagnosis is given upon presentation of certain symptoms, after tests have ruled other things out.

So it's not necessarily the case that they made that up.

It could be that they were told it was CBD, or likely to be CBD, after other conditions had been ruled out, but his long and relatively healthy life has cast the diagnosis into doubt, and perhaps they felt unable to say that after things had gone so far.

It could be that he does indeed have CBD and is an outlier who's doing much better than most (after all, averages are just that).

Surely the charity for CBD wouldn't have had him as a spokesperson without basic due diligence. I know from my own illness that all the charities I've received support from or had any involvement with have required ID and medical letters.

If it turns out that the CBD story is completely fictitious then that's absolutely despicable but let's not go in with the pitchforks just yet.

The charity has removed him from their website though

And I often find the staff that run these charities don't actually know that much about the condition. They are just administrators/fundraisers etc with limited knowledge. I gave up going to support groups for my condition because the people running them were so utterly clueless about even the basics.

Stravaig · 07/07/2025 08:27

When you see someone - anyone - with a long term health condition, you see them on their better days. You don't see the pain, fatigue or all the many steps and time & effort invested to enable them to be present at that time.

You won't see the after-effects of expending the energy to be present either.
(@Comet33 )

Heading off on a tangent, but this needs to be the centrepiece of a concerted public education campaign. A dedicated day, or week, where every medical organisation, every support and advocacy group, and every single media source headlines these key points. Over and over again, until it is generally understood by everyone, whether govt decision-maker or fellow citizen in the street.

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