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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to think that Nigel Farage will be our next PM?

817 replies

ohime · 06/07/2025 11:04

Or, more accurately: AIBU to be afraid that truly nasty piece of work Nigel Farage who has, by all accounts, always been utterly useless at (or at least completely uninterested in) the actual business end of governing will be our next PM because everyone is so fed up with all the other parties being, variously or all at once, so corrupt, incompetent and useless that we've collectively abandoned all hope? I will never vote for Farage, who is a horrible man, or any of his party which keeps having to fire people for being just a teensy bit too overtly racist - but it seems from the polls that for many people the choice against the status quo outweighs what we may be choosing. (For an example, I can't believe that Farage's stated position that DOGE in the US didn't go far enough with its swinging cuts to the social safety net would be popular with UK voters who recently elected a government on the basis that it would reverse years of Tory austerity... not that that's worked out so well...)

OP posts:
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13
SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:20

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:10

I literally quoted someone saying “people are stupid”! Someone else upthread also used the word “dumb”.

Also, you're making the people you listen to exclusive - 'claims you can't 'back up'. So your opinion is null and void because you can't produce a research paper to back it up ? Lived experience and observation and finding natural correlation obviously means nothing then. You know full well that many non university educated people will be unable to produce these research articles you so wish for. And that is another way of concluding "your opinion doesn't matter ".

I've looked at research long enough to know full well that it can say anything you want it to say.

mrshoho · 06/07/2025 20:30

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:20

Also, you're making the people you listen to exclusive - 'claims you can't 'back up'. So your opinion is null and void because you can't produce a research paper to back it up ? Lived experience and observation and finding natural correlation obviously means nothing then. You know full well that many non university educated people will be unable to produce these research articles you so wish for. And that is another way of concluding "your opinion doesn't matter ".

I've looked at research long enough to know full well that it can say anything you want it to say.

Very true, we see with our own eyes the negative changes to the areas we live in. I now avoid my local town and plan to move away once our elderly parents are no longer with us.

Doitrightnow · 06/07/2025 20:30

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 17:32

I’m not a Trump or Farage fan but I don’t agree with the way people are accused of “being stupid” because they vote a different way to you. And all politicians lie but they just call it “spin”.

Writing people of as dumb/stupid only pisses them off and plays right into Reform’s agenda.

We need to engage with all voters and acknowledge their genuine concerns about race, culture wars, migration etc. people are feeling really worried about the costs of people arriving on small boats, 100s of young men with different cultural values being housed near them, the burden on councils/services etc. Calling them stupid will not solve anything.

Trump is literally a criminal. People may have valid concerns over many things, but voting for a morally bankrupt person is irresponsible. I don't need to engage with Trump supporters, I'm not running for office in the US.

And everyone lies sure, but I don't know anyone who has been sacked multiple times for lying or led the country to self-harm by plastering lies on a massive bus. Not all lies are equal.

Farage is a dangerous charlatan and I'd like to think people will see through him, but recent history suggests not.

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 20:31

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 19:57

Articulate post, so thankyou for that reply.

However, if you look at countries where they are not afraid to say "no" to mass immigration: they just do not have the problems that the UK and France in particular have, who's level of illegal migration is higher. Switzerland for example quite simply doesn't want immigrants/refugees . Their country is extremely ordered. Nobody shouts "bigot. Racist" at them. Because people respect them. In the UK the more we've bent over backwards to accommodate every single minority group , the less respect we've obtained. Unfortunately, that's kind of how humanity (for some reason) works : the more you give, the more you'll be required to give. The more lenient the boundaries, the more they'll be stretched. We've proved that really (look at the country !) sometimes a level of reasonableness Is needed. An ability to say a flat "no" to unreasonable requests. An ability to smell bullshit and call it out (people fleeing persecution do not pass by a load of safe European countries. The end ) they might want to be near family /English speakers? Well they don't have that luxury if they're fleeing persecution, it's just common sense. If you're running away from a knife wielder, you hide in the nearest safe place until opportunities afford you more.

It’s a very difficult topic and I don’t disagree with either of you.
I grew up in a deprived West Yorkshire town and did see many issues caused by long term immigration (many families now second generation). No go areas, deprivation and the grooming gangs that targeted vulnerable white girls in my very underprivileged school.

I also saw many other issues though. White families with generations claiming benefits and up to no good. Many notorious criminals. The kids were never engaged with education and really, stood little chance of becoming anything other than a criminal. Again, no go areas in council estates.

There are so many issues in deprived areas. It would take decades and decades to unpick. Immigration is often an easy scapegoat, though probably exacerbates the issues.

BIossomtoes · 06/07/2025 20:32

BlueSlate · 06/07/2025 19:50

They certainly didn't think WFP for the elderly would be stopped, or that disability payments would he attacked or that council housing tenure would be under threat.

How is council housing (what’s left of it) tenure under threat?

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:37

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:20

Also, you're making the people you listen to exclusive - 'claims you can't 'back up'. So your opinion is null and void because you can't produce a research paper to back it up ? Lived experience and observation and finding natural correlation obviously means nothing then. You know full well that many non university educated people will be unable to produce these research articles you so wish for. And that is another way of concluding "your opinion doesn't matter ".

I've looked at research long enough to know full well that it can say anything you want it to say.

Eh?

Parmaviollets · 06/07/2025 20:37

@Kitte321 so if we have dire locked in poverty and families we can't help why import more problems ?

The duty of any government is to it's people first

Why on earth have we come to this situation ,how have we come to a point where white young males are supposedly the most under privileged in the UK

Our education' system is known for being extremely left wing.

However I've worked in education during Brexit and I saw many educators trying to convince the young it was a bad idea and at that age ( 16 to 18) they didn't pay any attention at all.

But at uni it's different and lecturers can be far more influential

mum2jakie · 06/07/2025 20:39

bobby81 · 06/07/2025 14:26

Lots of people where I live are really pleased with the decisions our new Reform led Council are making. They have made some really good decisions & acted quickly. I’m as surprised as anyone by how well they are doing (very early days obviously!)

Which council is this? We are Reform led in Staffs and the only change we've seen so far is the removal of Pride flags!

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:40

Doitrightnow · 06/07/2025 20:30

Trump is literally a criminal. People may have valid concerns over many things, but voting for a morally bankrupt person is irresponsible. I don't need to engage with Trump supporters, I'm not running for office in the US.

And everyone lies sure, but I don't know anyone who has been sacked multiple times for lying or led the country to self-harm by plastering lies on a massive bus. Not all lies are equal.

Farage is a dangerous charlatan and I'd like to think people will see through him, but recent history suggests not.

I agree. But people have a vote in a democracy. My point is calling people stupid/dumb just plays into the hands of Trump, Reform etc.

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 20:45

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 19:57

Articulate post, so thankyou for that reply.

However, if you look at countries where they are not afraid to say "no" to mass immigration: they just do not have the problems that the UK and France in particular have, who's level of illegal migration is higher. Switzerland for example quite simply doesn't want immigrants/refugees . Their country is extremely ordered. Nobody shouts "bigot. Racist" at them. Because people respect them. In the UK the more we've bent over backwards to accommodate every single minority group , the less respect we've obtained. Unfortunately, that's kind of how humanity (for some reason) works : the more you give, the more you'll be required to give. The more lenient the boundaries, the more they'll be stretched. We've proved that really (look at the country !) sometimes a level of reasonableness Is needed. An ability to say a flat "no" to unreasonable requests. An ability to smell bullshit and call it out (people fleeing persecution do not pass by a load of safe European countries. The end ) they might want to be near family /English speakers? Well they don't have that luxury if they're fleeing persecution, it's just common sense. If you're running away from a knife wielder, you hide in the nearest safe place until opportunities afford you more.

Switzerland has Nazi gold though. Thats a simplistic answer but it is also a very small country made rich by being the world's banker. It's pretty but also filled with regulations/rules around behaviour that most British people would find stifling. And they do have immigration, including people from outside Europe. I know someone who lives in Switzerland and she is from Cameroon. It's problems/advantages compared to Britain have nothing to do with immigration really. We probably do tolerate more diversity of behaviour/cooking smells in people from other places than Switzerland but we also tolerate more diverse behaviour from white British born than the Swiss tolerate from the Swiss.

A lot of Britain's issues were worsened by Brexit. That doesn't mean people were wrong to vote for Brexit - they couldn't see the future and even if they could maybe it is still worth the cost for sovereignty. But it's just a fact that the price of sovereignty was the new phenomena of small boats and increased migration from outside the EU (regular and non regular). As well as a cist to the economy so less for the government to spend, less farming subsidies. Etc.

But Farage will have known leaving the EU would result in leaving agreements that then led to more irregular migration. He knew and he lied to people and he's still lying when he pretends to be shocked by the small boats that we are all arguing about.

TankFlyBossW4lk · 06/07/2025 20:47

ThejoyofNC · 06/07/2025 11:24

I certainly hope he is.

At this point just to upset the boring idiots who just keep saying "aaaah he's so racist" on repeat.

I'm neither boring nor an idiot. But he's a racist. Pure and simple. It's a fact.

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:51

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:37

Eh?

Sorry!!! I was backing you up. I was supposed to quote the person you quoted 🙈

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 20:58

Parmaviollets · 06/07/2025 20:37

@Kitte321 so if we have dire locked in poverty and families we can't help why import more problems ?

The duty of any government is to it's people first

Why on earth have we come to this situation ,how have we come to a point where white young males are supposedly the most under privileged in the UK

Our education' system is known for being extremely left wing.

However I've worked in education during Brexit and I saw many educators trying to convince the young it was a bad idea and at that age ( 16 to 18) they didn't pay any attention at all.

But at uni it's different and lecturers can be far more influential

Some immigration can be positive though. Yes, we need to find a way to limit asylum seekers to a manageable level. I think everyone agrees with that. But we should accept that there are plenty of skilled immigrants that can add to communities both culturally and through taxes.

I can see though, that if I was still living where I was raised I wouldn’t feel like that. I would be looking for blame for my circumstances and lack of opportunity. The issues within these communities are ingrained. Lack of education, little parental support/guidance, lack of positive male role models, drugs, criminality. Yes - we need
more resources to stage meaningful interventions but you also need engagement.

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 20:58

@SquishedMallow https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html.
40% of the Swiss population over 15 years is from a migrant background. 30% first generation (born elsewhere). Whether that's good or not is an internal debate for them. But if you want to argue Switzerland is a better country because of it's immigration policies then you end up making the opposite point.

Population by migration status | Federal Statistical Office - FSO

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 21:02

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 20:58

@SquishedMallow https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html.
40% of the Swiss population over 15 years is from a migrant background. 30% first generation (born elsewhere). Whether that's good or not is an internal debate for them. But if you want to argue Switzerland is a better country because of it's immigration policies then you end up making the opposite point.

Is that about illegal immigrants/refugees is it ? The kind we're having problems with here ? (Thought not )

GoodbyeRosie · 06/07/2025 21:04

Absolutely.

We are now a populist right wing country; the general public gave Labour 5 minutes before they turned on them.

This website is a microcosm of the real world. Unrepentant, uncaring, bigoted Reform voters at every turn.

I think Conservative & Reform will form a Government together after the next GE, With Farage elected leader and Prime Minister.

It will of course be a disaster, socially & economically, but it's what the people want..a snake oil salesman with one message and a bunch of unworkable policies.

We'll be just like the U.S.A. and Trump.

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 21:06

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 20:58

Some immigration can be positive though. Yes, we need to find a way to limit asylum seekers to a manageable level. I think everyone agrees with that. But we should accept that there are plenty of skilled immigrants that can add to communities both culturally and through taxes.

I can see though, that if I was still living where I was raised I wouldn’t feel like that. I would be looking for blame for my circumstances and lack of opportunity. The issues within these communities are ingrained. Lack of education, little parental support/guidance, lack of positive male role models, drugs, criminality. Yes - we need
more resources to stage meaningful interventions but you also need engagement.

The problem is, during the Brexit debate people evoked the spirit of the blitz. But during that time the upper tax rate was something like 97%. That's how we were able to prevail and after the war build the welfare state. People were in it together. I don't think Farage, or Jenrick or the wealthy leave donors had any intention of ssurrendering some of their fortune in absorbing the worst impacts of Brexit so the less well of didn't feel the worst consequences. Or agreeing to be taxed more so that the parts of society that were really suffering saw some improvement in their lives
In fact they all made more money, while ordinary people that voted for change because they were desperate suffered. And will do again if given a chance.

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 21:11

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 21:02

Is that about illegal immigrants/refugees is it ? The kind we're having problems with here ? (Thought not )

Edited

Well, we had agreements in place that limited irregular migration to the UK. And lots of EU migration (just like Switzerland has lots of EU migrants) because of freedom of movement. Voting to leave allowed Britain to restrict movement of EU people. But also directly caused the small boats problem. So it limited one type of migration but caused an increase in another. If the problem is only non EU migration why did people vote leave?
And Switzerland does have refugees)asylum seekers and lots of arguments about illegal migration too. So you thought wrong when you thought not.

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 21:13
Julie Andrews Salzburg GIF by The Rodgers & Hammerstein Organization

Video evidence of people entering Switzerland illegally!

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 21:16

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 21:06

The problem is, during the Brexit debate people evoked the spirit of the blitz. But during that time the upper tax rate was something like 97%. That's how we were able to prevail and after the war build the welfare state. People were in it together. I don't think Farage, or Jenrick or the wealthy leave donors had any intention of ssurrendering some of their fortune in absorbing the worst impacts of Brexit so the less well of didn't feel the worst consequences. Or agreeing to be taxed more so that the parts of society that were really suffering saw some improvement in their lives
In fact they all made more money, while ordinary people that voted for change because they were desperate suffered. And will do again if given a chance.

Agree completely. Any message of change feels positive even if there is a lack of substance, strategy or real grass roots initiatives. People can see bulging waiting lists, growing classes, knife crime, grooming gangs - they can see and touch it. NF says that they are ‘heard’ and he can deliver a silver bullet solution.

Those of us who argue and suggest it might not be the silver bullet it’s made out to be are shouted down. We are too
privileged to understand. Too sanctimonious. All the other parties just aren’t able to successfully communicate a message that lands in the same way.

mrshoho · 06/07/2025 21:17

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 21:11

Well, we had agreements in place that limited irregular migration to the UK. And lots of EU migration (just like Switzerland has lots of EU migrants) because of freedom of movement. Voting to leave allowed Britain to restrict movement of EU people. But also directly caused the small boats problem. So it limited one type of migration but caused an increase in another. If the problem is only non EU migration why did people vote leave?
And Switzerland does have refugees)asylum seekers and lots of arguments about illegal migration too. So you thought wrong when you thought not.

Why do believe the 'small boat problem' wouldn't have happened had we stayed in the EU?

Our largest number of asylum applications comes from Pakistan according to published data. Most don't even arrive on small boats. They wait for their visas to run out and then claim it's too dangerous to return.

StandFirm · 06/07/2025 21:17

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 21:11

Well, we had agreements in place that limited irregular migration to the UK. And lots of EU migration (just like Switzerland has lots of EU migrants) because of freedom of movement. Voting to leave allowed Britain to restrict movement of EU people. But also directly caused the small boats problem. So it limited one type of migration but caused an increase in another. If the problem is only non EU migration why did people vote leave?
And Switzerland does have refugees)asylum seekers and lots of arguments about illegal migration too. So you thought wrong when you thought not.

And I remember anyone pointing this out in the run up to the referendum was accused of racism by leave voters!

StandFirm · 06/07/2025 21:22

mrshoho · 06/07/2025 21:17

Why do believe the 'small boat problem' wouldn't have happened had we stayed in the EU?

Our largest number of asylum applications comes from Pakistan according to published data. Most don't even arrive on small boats. They wait for their visas to run out and then claim it's too dangerous to return.

Why do believe the 'small boat problem' wouldn't have happened had we stayed in the EU?
Because every single fucking thing has got bogged down in new bureaucracy because we left a system that we'd helped shape to our advantage in many instances. Maybe some compromises were required from us from time to time but this kind of stuff - managing borders- was logically much smoother before we flicked two fingers at the neighbours. And now we have a lot of red tape.

StandFirm · 06/07/2025 21:23

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 21:16

Agree completely. Any message of change feels positive even if there is a lack of substance, strategy or real grass roots initiatives. People can see bulging waiting lists, growing classes, knife crime, grooming gangs - they can see and touch it. NF says that they are ‘heard’ and he can deliver a silver bullet solution.

Those of us who argue and suggest it might not be the silver bullet it’s made out to be are shouted down. We are too
privileged to understand. Too sanctimonious. All the other parties just aren’t able to successfully communicate a message that lands in the same way.

I just find it mind boggling that voters cannot seem to grasp that change can absolutely be for the worse...

mrshoho · 06/07/2025 21:28

StandFirm · 06/07/2025 21:22

Why do believe the 'small boat problem' wouldn't have happened had we stayed in the EU?
Because every single fucking thing has got bogged down in new bureaucracy because we left a system that we'd helped shape to our advantage in many instances. Maybe some compromises were required from us from time to time but this kind of stuff - managing borders- was logically much smoother before we flicked two fingers at the neighbours. And now we have a lot of red tape.

Sorry I don't follow. People have been migrating across Europe mainly from the African continent with the goal of reaching the UK. France are fighting a battle to manage and it is only recently that a new law has been implemented allowing the boats to be destroyed in the water. How would this have been prevented had we been in the EU? Brexit has been a disaster in business terms but I don't believe for a mi item that the issue of the boats would have been better.