To think that people are complicit with neglect

[Wierdyperiody]

There's a woman in my community, she is a prolific Facebooker, involved in lots of community activities and attracts a fair amount of praise and attention.

She has two young teenage boys, neither of them attend school or and activities or clubs, one never leaves the house at all and the other only goes out with her occasionally. In conversation she said a they don't get out of bed until near lunchtime and spend most of the day playing computer games.

They are both allegedly autistic, they did go to school and now have home education. The woman is out and about doing her activities for whole days leaving the children at home alone

I spend more than a healthy amount of time thinking about whether this is child neglect and imagine my own DD who is a similar age effectively being housebound, having no outside interaction. It really upsets me. It also upsets me that someone who is neglecting their children is praised and celebrated so much

I did suggest a playdate between my DD and the 12 year old as both like boardgames and had a nice friendship when they were much younger. The woman slammed it down.

Aibu to think this is neglect and there's a whole community of people complicit in this because no one seems to be thinking about these boys being in a top floor flat day after day?

Plenty of autistic adults don’t get out much.

a friend of mine has a severely autistic child now aged about 35. He has 24/7 carers who occasionally take him out but mostly he lives at home in his own sort of annexe. He’s really into Thomas the tank engine at the moment.

nobody in their right mind would give him a job of any description as he is mentally about the age of three.

if you suspect these kids are being neglected by all means report but it is pretty likely that they are not.

@Smoothout that’s a really shit comment……not very bright? Jesus……

you do realise every child is different right?

what worked for your daughter wouldn’t work for another.

you sound incredibly short sighted and judgemental which is strange given you yourself have struggled with your daughter.

my daughter is autistic and struggles to leave the house. It is not through lack of trying. Also it’s a lost lot easier to get a 7 year old out the house than it is a teenager. You cannot compare the two.

@Digdongdoo I was thinking more if they were left all day most days as the OP’s post seems to imply. But how the OP can know this for sure I am sceptical of.

* think if I'm honest I'm a little jealous that she gets so much praise attention and validation when clearly there is so much wrong.*. I suspect that this lies at the root of your “concern”

I don't have time or inclination to bloody generate that much attention for myself well you have the time to extensively stalk the woman

and your DD and one of the sons used to be close. Interesting..,, so I imagine you and this woman have had “dealings” with in the past.

I agree with some of your post. It is neglectful. I know a few families in this situation, I don't think it is intentional, the children are usually introverted to begin with, prefering to be alone, years of isolation and ipad , not meeting other people, they become a social disaster.
It is very unfair.

It would seem the op hasn’t done anything aside from start a mumsnet thread about it?

This is exactly it though. Yes, I maybe short sighted and judgemental but then the alternative we just nod and smile at the narrative being presented ?
I know if just a handful of people had been even slightly interested or concerned about my welfare as a child instead of celebrating my mother's endeavour s, I would not have suffered wil shame and low self worth and been hindered in so many ways.

A child witnessing their mother behaving like a celebrity while thier own need for validation, socialisation and connection is ignored. I've seen this a few times.

@Mushybut no it's not the root of the concern but am element yes as it has driven my over focus on the stark difference between the public image of the person and how her children are experiencing life.

@EmeraldShamrock000 yes. It's impeding Thier development. Even if a child is struggling, they need a parent to help them explore all sorts of different opportunities until they discover something that's a fit. Rotting indoors on a screen day after day should not be acceptable under any circumstances

Impossible to know. My boys are pretty antisocial. They’re very self-sufficient and love spending time at home. This has nothing to do with neglect. All children are different. Just because you can’t imagine your daughter enjoying that lifestyle doesn’t mean the mum isn’t simply working with the children she has been give .

On the other hand, getting up at lunchtime every day doesn’t sound like very effective home schooling. But again, she could be following a routine which works best in practice for these “autistic” boys.

Maybe talk to her and get a feel for things?

You aren’t going to tell us about how your DD and her son used to be close ie meaning you and her presumably know one another rather well In real life too, are you??

Think of all the time you’d gain if you stopped relentlessly stalking this woman’s social media OP?

How do you know their needs for socialisation validation and connection are being ignored though?

I had a single working mother and spent many days alone without her when she was working shifts and despite that she still managed to meet those needs.

Teenage lads playing games will definitely be socialising. It just won't be face to face and that's absolutely fine because face to face socialisation can be really uncomfortable. You can't compare one child to the next.

Report her today if you genuinely think it is neglect. Otherwise keep your beak out.

Please report if you have good reason to suspect neglect.

Well one thing everyone surely knows, you don't "home school" by letting the child stay in bed all day while you go out.

what you described is not necessarily neglect. People are far too focused on “getting out”. Many people enjoy being at home, especially people with ASD.

the key here is if the teenagers are actively engaged with a home education program or if they are just using that as an excuse. They may also be getting social interaction that you are not aware of.

my own child has been online schooled at times and the quality of her education was far superior during that time. Free from the stress of the classroom, she absolutely thrived academically. (This was during Covid when her school went to an online model, many struggled, but it was fantastic for some kids).

I'm assuming "allegedly autistic" means you have no clue for certain but someone else has told you?

It seems to me that you have some kind of issue with this person having social media (is she some kind of influencer? Or is it people she knows that comment?). There is an easy way to resolve your issue with that and that is by not looking at her accounts.

If you genuinely think her children are being neglected then report it but there is a big difference is someone parenting in a different way to you and actual neglect. Home education also isn’t something that looks a certain way or that has to happen between 9 and 3, again if you know that they aren’t receiving any education you are free to report it.

Past beef between this woman and Op

The woman getting lots of attention on SM and OP seething with jealousy and spending vast swathes of time following her .

No real concern, actually crap that… no concern at all. And probably no need for any anyway.

id bet my house on it 😆

It's seeming more and more that you are just jealous of the positive attention she receives.
If you really know enough about her life to have firmly based concerns, then make a thorough report. If not butt out and stop following her social media if it bothers you this much.

Report her to social services then.

otherwise you are complicit too.

I have a 16 y.o DD who would prefer to rot in her room on a pc, she has ASD. We'll go on an evening walk, baking, watch amines, of course I'd love a 16 y.o, that has friends and socialised outside school, she doesn't so I have to step in, otherwise she'll be worse in the future without socialising.

@Mushybut no concern at all? I've just said this woman reminds me of my mother and that my own childhood neglect mirrors what I see of how she is parenting.

In what world does this say no concern?

I have seen this before; young people deeply isolated and ill equipped to manage life.

Rarely is this scenario entirely rooted in a condition like autism...more often that not there's a dynamic of family enmeshment, intergenerational trauma and sadly a narrative that labels the child. The parent gets to publicly wring thier hands to a community/wider family/school and the children become atrophied into a condition that renders them unable to navigate the world.

So many of these children are falling into online worlds and we know, an embodied existence and co regulation is necessary to thrive. Walking running, playing, exploring, being part of a team for those who are able (if not good regular 1:2:1 interaction)

Yes, there is history I watched this woman enact harsh and putative words on her eldest child, criticism, eye rolls and and treat the other one like he was angelic.

This was when they were much much younger.

Seeing the manifestation of interpersonal trauma resulting in children having hardly any quality of life is sad. It's perpetuated by every single person who is burying head in sand and blaming every system of the than the immediate family. When does it stop?

You're right..I'm going to stop looking.

Whenever I see her I will ask about her children and how they are.

I genuinely don't think the neglect is significant enough for a safeguarding intervention but I do believe that if these boys were in a foster placement the foster carer would be expected to give them a routine and take them out of the house now and again

I feel like a lot of people don't understand the electively home educating option that it sounds like the woman in question has taken, which for many parents of autistic children, is not all that elective when you're faced with a punitive and time consuming EHCP system and a mentally taxing and traumatic schooling system.

It's usually a necessary step in keeping out children's mental health stable, and reducing school based trauma.

You don't have to do a home education programme to be a home educator.

You don't have to do the national curriculum, you don't have to join homeschooling groups, you don't have to aim for any qualifications or have your kids sit any tests, and the education does not need to be based in academics and it doesn't need to fit the 9-3 model.

It can be life skills, emotional regulation, independent living, or simply allowing space for wellbeing and recovery.

You can raise a safeguarding concern if you feel that the education the children are receiving is not matching with the child's age, aptitude, or medical needs.

Ultimately she could argue she is teaching them independent living and life skills by allowing them to live a fairly independent life at home. It doesn't matter what time they go to bed or what time they wake up.

Video games aside, sleep can be extremely difficult for autistic people anyway. It isn't uncommon to have some sort of insomnia, and teens need more sleep than adults.

I have almost had to withdraw my child from mainstream education purely because he has delayed sleep phase syndrome and it's a long wait to get a referral for paediatric sleep consultations. I wouldn't be able to get my child to engage in the national curriculum at home.

Video games can teach skills like fine motor coordination, team building and cooperation, creativity, emotional regulation, reading and problem solving.

They can also be immensely validating and part of the dopaminergic reward loop and offer predictability and control. They're a good way of socialising with all manner of people.

It can also teach IT skills, finding ways around systems, installing and troubleshooting when things like custom mods are involved, programming and decision making.

It can teach engineering skills to children who are interested in building their own set ups, and they can learn about systems which many hard-core gamers do as it is an investment in their hobbies.

Her teens may not be in a place to learn right now but they might be in a place of curiosity and self regulation.

But as I've said before OP if you truly believe they're being neglected, then report them to the police today who will have a social services worker on hand that they can escalate safeguarding concerns to.

I do know of one girl who was hidden away from society and hardly any one knew she existed, and she was the daughter of the old man who lives over the road from me. She was very high needs, diagnosed with infantile schizophrenia, and even when she died the body removal was organised in a way to ensure that none of the neighbours would know she even existed. A truly traumatic case of neglect that I wouldn't wish on any children, so please report it if you believe they are being ill cared for.

So you’re still avoiding the back story between you and this woman given your daughter and her son “used” to be close friends??!

Yes, there is history I watched this woman enact harsh and putative words on her eldest child, criticism, eye rolls and and treat the other one like he was angelic.

aaaah…. And how did this all wrap up ending up you following her relentlessly on SM but no longer in contact ?

Op, just think of all the spare time you’ll have if you stop following her.

report her, you seem deeply troubled by it. Posting long detailed posts on mumsnet isn’t going to help them, is it?