… To be considering leaving the UK?

[globalnomad25]

We have been considering leaving, even if only for a few years. Many of our clients have already gone or are planning it, and some of our friends too.

I’m not sure where we’d go: UAE, Portugal, Jersey, Ireland, Canada, Australia? We don’t currently want to move to the US, even though that would probably make the most sense from a business/client point of view.

For those out there who have already left, how has it gone? Was it a horrible mistake or are you glad you did it?

For those also thinking about it, where would you go?

Kids are school-aged and smart and used to international travel as our work already takes us all over, although they’d miss their friends (as would we). We aren’t English so our family is already based all over the place, although we visit them frequently.

I think the gov needs to hit everyone - remove triple lock, change benefits, increase tax for lower earners, maybe raise iht then there is no bleeding heart headlines as all are hit

But in reality, they'll just hit the same 'enemies of the state' with everything. You know, those enemies who disproportionately fund all state services, and use a fraction of them.

Btw, IHT is already incredibly punitive in the UK compared to pretty much anywhere else in the world.

A single parent in the UK leaving £1million to her 2 children (not remotely unusual in London where a very ordinary home - like the ones her children will need to buy - costs at least £500k) will pay £200k inheritance tax.

In Germany, the total IHT due for that estate would be £8k. Even in high-tax France, only £68k would be due. Only Denmark comes anywhere close to the UK's for that not-unusual estate, at £144k. But in Denmark, since the rate is only 15% (just with a much lower threshold), it's more widely paid but less punitive to the wealthy (a £500k estate in Denmark would pay £70k versus UK £0, but a £5million estate would pay £744k versus UK £1.8million).

In Austria, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Sweden or Switzerland there would be no inheritance tax to pay. Yes that does indeed include the Nordic countries which left-wingers here venerate as socialist paragons, but which are actually significantly less punitive to their wealthy citizens than the UK is.

Very much this.

Lower benefits and higher taxes across the board. Everyone share the pain.

Instead they'll hit the dwindling number of PAYE middle earners who will increasingly go part time, move abroad, downsize job, discover a disability because work no longer pays.

What you're forgetting is France/Germany etc hit you with CGT on property sales - Germany 36%, Norway 22% on residential main residence.

Why shouldn't someone inheriting 500k pay tax on it? if married, the tax free allowance is £1m, includes widows etc

They have tapered relief on CGT, so that if you've owned a family home for several decades there's no CGT to pay.

Why shouldn't someone inheriting 500k pay tax on it?

Because the owner of the property (the deceased person) should be allowed to give their own possessions away as they choose, without the state stealing yet more of it over any excuse.

IHT in the UK is completely out of proportion - and you can see the consequences play out as wealthy non-Doms - who subsidise the rest of us - started leaving the UK in droves after Labour tried to make them pay IHT on worldwide assets - assets earned and held outside the UK. Totally outrageous cheeky-fuckery!

I think IHT should be abolished - as so many countries have already done. If it isn't abolished, then it should be reformed to be like Denmark - a much lower percentage, but applied to everyone above an admin-cost threshold (Denmark's us 15% for everything above £30k). That's at least fair, although it still encourages economically inefficient behaviour.

I'm totally fed up of the constant theft and excessive redistribution.

'Fair' means we all pay the same tax and get the same state services back. All treated the same. It's so unimaginable to us in the UK that most people don't even consider that as an option - although it's been the reality in most places in the world through most of human history.

The UK - like most social democracies- has instead created state-organised, enforced charity through redistributive policies - and up to a point we all support that. But it's resulted in entitlement, anti-wealth rhetoric, anti-growth policies, and escalating state-sanctioned theft. I've had enough.

I do not think France or Germany are better than UK. I think France actually has more problems.
Switzerland is currently far better, so are some of the Scandinavian countries. Italy seems to be on an up, especially Northern Italy. Everyone I know from London is currently looking at Italy and Switzerland. The very young are looking at Dubai and Middle East for a few years. The ones who were already international (eg Indian) are going back to eg Singapore.
This movement has always been the case but there is definitely an acceleration now.

I do worry about how climate change will affect Switzerland - it will affect everywhere of course, but temperatures there are rising faster than elsewhere, and there are already more avalanches and landslides. Perhaps less flooding than the UK though.

It's a very lovely country though, and I agree that it's functioning better than elsewhere just now. And skilled migration is definitely possible to there, with great work opportunities.

Not true, many countries offer the nomad visa as a route in to permanent residency and the income requirements are all quite reasonable. With a load of money in the bank you can go almost anywhere, true, but with a good remote job you CAN go anywhere.

IF you ve owned it for decades!! imagine moving several times and on each paying CGT on the sales?

The deceased person can... bottom line is my DD may well receive more than 500k, she may pay some tax... so what?

For me, the unfairness is in care costs, people who fritter their money away pay nothing, the more responsible get hammered.

Same with pensions, i don't agree with these as part of IHT, i will be spending the one that would have been inc.

Stupid.

France has problems but its starting from a much higher base.

They still have a functioning state, we don't.

imagine moving several times and on each paying CGT on the sales
CGT is intended to catch eg people flipping properties for profit. That's actually reasonably justifiable to tax - it's just difficult to differentiate from people genuinely moving home in a rising property market.

The really unfair aspects of CGT on UK residential property are:
1.It is again a tax on living in the SE (which we already pay for again and again: in higher stamp duty, higher IHT, higher income tax if our employers have regional pay to allow for our higher COL...).
2.Since we don't have taper relief, we'll be paying tax on inflation. CGT is lower than income tax to allow for inflation, but it assumes a fairly short time period.

my DD may well receive more than 500k, she may pay some tax
You may not care that the government will steal more of your taxed income, just because you were prudent enough to keep some (including your home) - rather than gifting it all during your lifetime and risking not being able to support yourself - but I do.

For me, the unfairness is in care costs
Agreed that care costs being means-tested is unfair. Something that costs the tax-payer so much should be universally available - just like the NHS is.

Same with pensions, i don't agree with these as part of IHT

Why? It's annoying that the exemption has been removed (given that I think IHT is fundamentally wrong) - and it's particularly shit for those people who had relied on it for IHT planning, and have had the rug pulled out from under them too late to do something different (a timely reminder to us all that you can't trust the government). But I'm not sure why you think it's more unfair than any other IHT? Money purchase pensions aren't really any different to other assets - there's just a preferential tax treatment to encourage people to save in a vehicle they can't access until later in life, since that decreases the likelihood of them depending on the state.

Changing the restrictions on when and how we can take out our pensions on the other hand... if that happens I'll see that as yet another breach of trust by Labour (guaranteed it will be so that they can steal more).

But is not taxed income is it? my dd never earned a penny of it & on the house price increase, none has been taxed - we ve spoken about this and yes i will gift to reduce tax payable.

But i would prefer IHT to CGT on sale, after all, i wont be paying it!

The pensions thing is just short sighted, its an easy thing to spend, as can be taken at 55, would have been better to have had a TH value or leave.

Tories already changed when we can take pensions.

But is not taxed income is it? my dd never earned a penny of it

No but you did! And if you gave it to her in life, it would just be a gift. Why do you think it should be any different after death? When you did the sensible, pro-social thing of keeping some back to make sure you won't depend on the state.

It's despicable that the government take advantage of the fact you can't protect yourself because you're dead to steal from you.

on the house price increase, none has been taxed
Speak for yourself. I did a calculation on how much CGT I would have paid on my last property, if inflation was allowed for correctly and it wasn't far off the stamp duty I paid on my current house. Yet another way the SE is screwed over, paying tax that no one else does.

You have to live somewhere. Your child will also have to live somewhere. Stealing money from us because the house we have to live in has a bigger number against it is seriously unjust.

(edited because I'd slightly misremembered the calculation I did)

My house that i sold recently, went from 85k to 450k in 21 years, if i had paid 18% CGT, about 65k or in my case, 88k, as at the time i was higher rate

My dd will probably pay around 80k in IHT but had we CGT on property sales, houses wouldn't increase as much, as they don't in most of Europe outside of major cities.
Plus even if they did, Germanys 36% would leave me with a far higher bill.

Look i get SE prices, we have a blunt tax system and a very complicated one but tbf we have voted for this over many years.

I think we need drastic reform of tax in this country, plus changes in council tax but no one will do it as it takes about 4 years to get through and then there is another GE.

At times i think we need a Trump style system, JFDI

Becaise why would you build up a business and run it with long term goals if you can't hand it on without loading it up with debt?

Yeah, the only person I know who specifically left the UK over tax went to Switzerland. He left specially over the 50% tax band. We lost an earner and 3 kids over a tax that raised no revenue.

The people who the Governement are chasing away are exactly the people other countries will take in the blink of an eye.

I've never really understood the concept of IHT. In the UK, you are already over taxed throughout your lifetime, especially if you are a Higher rate tax payer. You contribute more than your fair share to society to support services you probably make very little use of. At some point these key tax contributors will evaluate whether what the UK offers is still worth staying. You can call them selfish - doesn't matter. Life is too short and hard enough as it is. Who wouldn't want the best for their family. We left the UK earlier this year and couldn't be happier. It's like a financial weight lifted off our shoulders.

IHT isn’t a tax on the person who created the money, but a tax on the recipient. The recipient did absolutely nothing to get the inherited money.

No it's on the deceased person. In the UK - unlike other countries - it's applied to the estate, not to the recipients. In almost all other countries, each recipient has their own threshold - so if it's split between many children there's less tax to pay than if it all goes to one person Most countries also have less tax when the money goes to a direct descendent.

The recipient does additionally pay income tax on the pension, if the deceased was under 70 - at their own rate. But the IHT is on the deceased.

It is absolutely theft from the deceased person, stealing a huge chunk from the last gift they ever give their child. It's despicable.

The recipient did absolutely nothing to get the inherited money.

Our children never do anything to get the gifts we give them. They did nothing to get the warm, safe home we provide for them, the food, clothes, books, games. They did nothing to get our time, our guidance, our care.

That's what parenthood is and it's the most natural thing in the world.

Do you really support the state standing in the way of that, just because it applies to 'other people' whose money you want for yourself, and not to you?

We are talking about money/property not care!

I don't want to pay vat, income tax - at times 40% - but we all want roads maintained, hospitals & schools.

No one is stopping anyone leaving money to their kids, iht is a tax most wont pay, my estate will - though i do think thresholds should increase.

I think there are bigger fish to fry.

The state has to realise that the real assets it could be losing with so many people having dual citizenships and rights to live overseas, is the future workers. Losing a rich late 40s is less of an issue then losing their 3-4 children, given the demographic challenges. Where I live in London, most people I know have the right to live and work in other countries. Add in the anti immigration rhetoric going on, it is quite a worrying state of affairs.
The resource scramble in Europe will be for young skilled & educated workers. We do not value our young enough either. Burdening them ever more with taxes is not a good idea.