AIBU to work outside of work hours?

[Greywarden]

DH and I both work full-time. We have a toddler DD. I have posted before about how much we are struggling with things like housework, decluttering and generally managing our routines, and have received some great advice which has helped a lot. I'm hoping I might get some helpful advice again.

DH is more senior than I am at work - he is a manager and earns a fair bit more. His role has a lot of stresses involved. However, he has been in the job for a long time and gets a lot of flexibility over his calendar and over what tasks he takes on. He is almost always able to finish work at 5pm and then leave it 'at the door'.

In contrast my role is more middling and is stressful in a different way. My job also represents a significant promotion and change from my previous work. It has been a steep learning curve for me since I started a year and a half ago. My position is actually a training role that involves studying for a uni course alongside my work; my module results get sent to my manager so I always feel under scrutiny, and if I do not pass the course, I will lose my job. There is the prospect of me equalling or surpassing DH's salary in a few years if all goes well but there is a lot of competition for jobs in my field and taking further steps up the career ladder is dependent on showing you've gone above and beyond in your role, leading projects, doing research on top of your regular job etc.

Here's the issue: I often find myself with work to do that I cannot complete within my working hours. What I tend to do is come home shortly after 5, do things with DH and DD, then get down to work again after DD is asleep. Ideally I'd do this maybe 3 nights a week. I generally avoid any work on weekends, although have had to do this a few times when big deadlines have loomed.

My DH hates that I do this. He says that seeing me working in the evenings makes it hard for him to relax; that it stops us from having enough quality time together; that it means that he ends up doing more with DD than I do and he does not get enough breaks (I'm dubious about this one as I still am the one who seems to get up with her most mornings whilst he has a lie-in); and that he is worried about my mental health given how much stress I seem to be under. He keeps saying I should just say no to some of the work I'm being given. He also points out - and he is right on this - that some of the things I'm doing are as a result of me agreeing to be part of extra projects beyond the remit of my job role and that I shouldn't be doing this when I'm already struggling with my workload.

My arguments are that: doing extra work outside of regular hours goes with the territory of my job (literally everyone else on my uni course and everyone else at a similar level to me at work is doing late nights and weekend work); that I'm actually doing less than a lot of my colleagues; that I have to show willing for extra projects if I'm going to have any chance of further promotion; that he was the one who supported me to go for this job in the first place and that I'd warned him from the start about what would be involved. I'd add that his disapproval of me working in the evenings is actually making my stress levels worse because now I'm having to put work aside to hang out / watch TV with him, then wake up very early in the mornings to do the extra work instead. In secret. I'm shattered. I don't socialise with friends or do hobbies anymore because I worry it would be too selfish of me to do this when I'm already taking time away from family life to work.

My DH has suggested that I don't worry about promotions etc and that maybe I'd be happier if I went part-time to have more time with DD, or moved back into a less stressful position. He's probably right: I would be happier. But opportunities like the one I've got now are gold dust in my profession and I don't want to waste it. DH is also a lot older than I am and wants to retire soon - he's full of plans about travelling the world with friends etc and sees it as my turn to pay for a larger proportion of things, and I don't get how we're going to afford the future he wants if I step back in my own career.

Who is being unreasonable? I get so angry when he asks me to do less work, like it feels as though he sees my work as trivial and is accusing me of being inefficient. But I'm not stupid and I'm not inefficient, and my work is important, and I'm working as hard as I can in my working hours (never take a lunch break etc) but it just never seems to be enough. At the same time I worry that I'm being selfish and letting my family down. It feels like I'll be letting them down whatever I do to be honest.

I'll add that I do actually love spending time with my DH and am not trying to use work to avoid him, but understandably I think he suspects this.

YABU to work outside of work hours
YANBU to do this

I studied part time and worked full time when my children were small. Best time to do it while you are not ferrying them around to activities. Although sometimes I used that time sat outside scouts / brownies / sports etc to study in the car! Totally worth it now. Divorced and have a fabulous job that my ex is very jealous of. The money of course is helpful but the personal satisfaction I got from achieving my qualifications and the job I have now made it all worth it. We had a cleaner when the children were small that was a big help. I also worked all sorts of alternative working patterns where needed. My children also know that hard work pays off. Go for it!

Many roles don’t have set hours but an expectation of what is required of you. I worked in Corporate Finance - when completing a transaction, you don’t leave at 5pm - you stay until the deal is done.
Teachers - extra hours for prep and marking
Doctors - regularly work over shift hours

I'm quite surprised by some of the responses here.
I'd hate it if my partner expected to spend the evening working 3 nights a week?
I'd feel guilty that I was sat relaxing and tbh i dont think it's healthy to have poor boundaries over work : if you are having to work in the evening beyond your working hours you aren't managing your workload properly, and your contributing to a propagating cycle if your employer expecting everyone to work hours they aren't paid for it. Because you're doing it, others will feel they have to as well, even if they don't want to.

I’m studying a masters whilst working full time and I have to do it in the evenings.

If they were expecting you to work unpaid outside of your hours then I would be on DHs side but this is just part of the role you’re doing right now.

As PPs have said, his motivation for saying these things aren’t anything to do with your well-being.

He only cares about himself, either he’s having to pick up the slack of parenting and household duties or he’s not getting enough attention or he’s jealous that you’re doing well.

Ignore him and carry on.
Do not feel guilty or stressed.
He is a grown adult that can entertain himself and if you are enjoying this then carry on.

How long will you need to do so many extra hours, either working or studying?
Don't forget how quickly our children grow - Don't miss out on enjoying those years.

But its just part of the role in many sectors..in fact, my contract says that there will be times I’m
expected to work additional hours.
I also did a PhD while working full time which required some evening and weekend work. Had I failed to complete that I would have lost my job.

If my DH had complained because he found it difficult to relax when I was working I would have thought he was needy and needed to get a grip!

There is no right or wrong here and it all comes down to what makes you happier. No one can tell you which you would rather be doing. Yes earning more and getting promotions is great on paper and of course extra money is always beneficial, but if it makes life more stressful then to me that isn't all there is to life.
Where do you draw the line when it comes to competing with everyone else? I always feel that there is a conflict between work and children - would you still be happy having to 'show willing' when it means you miss your child's sports day as it's when an important meeting is scheduled? Or there is a big project going on and you are leading it so simply can't take the time off for the Christmas play? I know some people aren't that fussed about these things.
I knew people would make a point about DH complaining and seeing this as him simply wanting you to be able to look after the children and do the house stuff, but actually it isn't a great living environment if someone is constantly under pressure from work.
I went from teacher to TA. Massive difference in wages and no opportunities for promotion BUT I can sleep at night again and I don't have the signs of anxiety and stress I had while teaching.

The thing that I noticed was you not working in the evening but getting up earlier to do it. So he’s ok with you missing sleep?

I thought your husband was being caring at the beginning of your post but as it went on he just seems selfish. He needs to recognise that it’s your turn to build your career, life doesn’t stop because you’re a mum.

I would caution though that working out of hours a lot isn’t sustainable, people come to just expect it. We’ve had problema with that where I work and it creates a poor working culture - it often only takes one small issue like sickness to throw everything out.

I have one evening a week where I’ll work as late as I can manage and I push back if that’s not enough. I don’t say no, I suggest what should be prioritised and give realistic timeframes. If the balls have to drop, so be it - it’s not my fault my team is under resourced.

@ChateauMargaux 's answer is spot on, you are a team and you need him to step up for you now, it's not forever. I would also not be guilt tripped into thinking you are "missing precious time" with your daughter, she's asleep and you have lots of life to share together - you matter too!

I think you’re making some really huge sweeping assumptions here.
For many, career progression comes with increased flexibility. I might have a more stressful job ( at times) but working all those additional hours and gaining those extra qualifications means I’m in a role where I can organise my own time. I’ve never missed a sports day, school play or assembly. DS is collected from after school club before 5pm 99% of the time and attends multiple clubs and hobbies which we take him to.
Sometimes you need to think longer term which is what the OP is doing.

But surely it's not about your discomfort with it? If your partner wants to do it and is aiming to progress in their career, it's their choice (though obviously there can be issues over pulling their weight with parenting etc). I work in a job where it's impossible not to take work home.

I think the real problem is that you and your DH are at different life stages. He’s looking forward to retirement whereas your career path is still rising.

I think that’s a much bigger conversation.

The OP’s DH could reduce his hours/days at work so he could do more at home, childcare, attend the millions of school events (I missed loads - DT’s couldn’t have cared less).

He is trying to keep you down. He does not want you to rise to a position which is more senior or earns more than he does. He may give lip service to supporting you or wanting the best for you but it isn't the case.

My ex was like this. Liked the idea of me qualifying to a profession and the frills it would bring. But didn't want to provide the support to help me achieve this or like the "outside normal hours " things like networking events or work normal for that profession brought if it impacted me being "his" wife! Hence he eventually became my ex.

Never let a partner treat you as anything but the queen you are or the queen you aim to be!

I think this is a really good approach. Much easier to do longer days/extra work when you have nursery rather than school and DC go to bed early.

I married my partner expecting a certain married life where we would spend time relaxing together. If they are working all evening 3 nights a week, regularly, then that's not a lifestyle I'm interested in. For the same reason that I don't want to be married to someone working night shifts who I never see.

If someone is working in the next room, like properly working, you feel you need to be quieter, change your behaviour, to enable them to work.
Its a very different atmosphere to one where you snuggle together on the sofa watching a bit if telly and chatting.

These working cultures only arise where people allow them to and employers encourage it because it's suits them very well to have people slaving away working extra hours they aren't paid for.

Probably contributes to the poor mental health a lot of people have these days.

A lot of people are sheep and accept it when you absolutely don't have to. My husband and I both earn very good salaries and neither of us routinely works beyond our hours. Sure we'll occasionally make an exception but that's very infrequent.

Surely as an adult you can entertain yourself for 3 evenings a week.

Why do you need to be tied at the hip to your OH?
I think that’s so unhealthy.

OP is doing a university course that will support her career in something she wants to do.
It is only temporary.

I could not be in a relationship with someone who was so needy that I couldn’t have 3 evenings a week to myself to further my career or have a hobby etc.

So you’d expect your spouse to turn down an amazing career opportunity in favour of having to relax every single night together? You wouldn’t support them temporarily having to work some evenings to progress their career?Even though it’s likely to benefit you as family in the future?

I read posts like this and I am forever grateful that my husband has been nothing but supportive of me when an opportunity arose that required extra work, study and regular international travel. Rather than whinging that we’re not watching tv together every night he’s buying me books to support my job and travel guides to the places I’m visiting.
We’ve all benefited from my higher salary and my increased flexibility allows DH to focus on his role too.
Neither of us are doing the jobs we were when we met but people and lives change.

I never said I don't work late, I said I don't work late for free. I build up the flexi hours and can take them back when it is quieter, I frequently work beyond 5pm, but not for free.

This is the sort of thing my mother says but she doesn't actually mean "some people", she means "some mothers". As is it's fine for men to spend all hours building their big important careers and hardly seeing their kids but the little woman should just do a little job for pocket money so she can be the family skivvy.

Life just isn't like that any more. Some women, even mothers (gasp) want more from their careers. Further, life is expensive, even if you live modestly. One salary isn't really enough for most families. Good parenting isn't just singing wheels on the bus and changing nappies. Good parenting involves putting a roof over your children's heads, paying bills and feeding and clothing them, all of which costs money. So good parenting usually involves earning it!

To the OP - your husband seems to want too many different things. He huffs about you doing work/study in the evening (even though this is after your child is in bed) because it makes it hard for HIM to relax and means he has to "do more". FGS he finishes work at 5pm, sounds amazing to me, he could spend an hour or so on chores and still have lots of time to relax. The more he does, the more time he will have to relax with you once you've done your work because you'll be free and not putting away washing.

Yet he also wants to retire soon and for you to pay for all the household stuff while he goes off having fun spending his pension. And how are you meant to pay for everything without improving your career prospects now? Duh. He can't have it both ways.

My DH was a bit like this when we were much younger
Kept saying things like ‘don’t start working it’s the weekend’
One Sunday my plan was to go out for lunch with him and then go to work
We were not living together
He kept trying to string out the day,taking ages to get ready,to order , having another coffee
When we came out the restaurant he said it was probably too late for me to go to work
I put out my hand and hailed a taxi and went to work
He never did it again
You need a serious talk with him
Tell him what you are doing and do not allow him to stop you
Getting up early to work in secret is ridiculous
As the DC say ‘he is not the boss of you ‘

Your husband is being unreasonable.
Your current workload is temporary ( if I have understood correctly) and the end result will be a promotion and a higher salary.
Your obviously ambitious and your husbands response to this is to suggest you may be happier going part time and not worrying about promotions . Is he for real. That is clearly what would suit him.
In the last 10 years, I have completed two masters degrees as well as working full time ( we have two dc's) and my dp has not complained once, he's been my biggest supporter actually.
Have stern words with your husband, his comments stop now. Don't let his negativity bring you down.

This is one way of working but it works differently in other sectors/jobs.
I just work … I don’t monitor hours I just do what needs to be done. Sometimes this means working evenings and weekends whereas other weeks are quiter and I’ll finish early. I get paid very well for what I do, I have a lot of flexibility and very generous annual leave. I don’t see it as working for free, I’m just doing my job and working it around my life.

However, I’ve worked in roles where I’ve tracked my hours and had a flexi time policy. They were often far less flexible than my current role!

You have worked out how to do it with the least impact on family life and he is still complaining about how it impacts on him. This is what you want to do with your spare time, yanbu.