To think it really is a man's world?

[TreatTreat]

We all know it is, but itv1 confirmed it even more for me today by calling the Euros tournament the 'women's euro tournament'. TV stations sure as hell don't introduce men's tournaments with their gender in the introduction.

I think in some areas there have been steps forward but obviously in the world we're a part of, with huge US influence and tending to end up with whatever cesspool of policy or culture they cook up (in one way or another), we are headed for an erosion of women's bodily autonomy. We are already going down the path of "perfect girlfriend, perfect wife, perfect mother' although we don't need much of a push in some cases. Anti-vax and 'live off the land' trends are all indicators of the same thing: women at home doing most of it.

But broadly not a lot has changed in my adulthood. We still don't have the personal freedoms men have, eg at night or even within families sometimes. We still find it near impossible to even flag up sexual abuse, never mind prosecute it. Maybe some inroads within businesses. We still end up by default doing the bulk of childcare and elder care. Most men IME understand the concept of equality there but even the most well-meaning don't see the full picture of what 'wifework' is.

I could go on about this all day, but yes I do feel it's ultimately a man's world, and while I can see it's hard for teenage boys (I have had one!) it's not actually that hard to be thoughtful. It is hard for them to see all the places their privilege hides, but being challenged on that occasionally can help. (It does with mine.)

I have three sons. I’ve always been aware that their female peers will do better than them at every stage of their academic lives but, despite that, they will have better career prospects and earn more money than the women they will eventually work with.

Am I happy about it? No, not really, I mean great for them but as I woman id like to
gavw been given the opportunities of a mediocre man 🙄

Why do you assume it's media troll click bait? The assumption that women will be the default carers of children and / or elderly parents is endemic. Women themselves need to actually realise this. When my ex left for OW it never occured to me that I could assume or ask for him to do 50/50. He certainly didn't suggest it and assumed I would do 26/30 days (now more like 58/60). If a man now, in 2025 asked in court for 50/50 and could show he had appropriate childcare in place, there is no reason it would not be awarded. But v v few do. Or claim they can't as "they work". Guess what, so do I..a 40 hour week and parent two kids. If I could go back ten years I would absolutely tell my younger self to demand he did his share. And whether you like it or not, this is the norm. So women ARE less likely to progress, seel or get pay rise and promotion because they are held back by these caring responsibilities. What's click bait about any of what I just said?

This

some vaguely good and interesting points being lost in a load of smug superiority

The real family court outrage is succinctly described by Rhaeny. That has happened to every divorced woman I know. Woman takes on lions share of childcare so her career is hampered long term as a result man sees the kids abit and unencumbered his career flourishes over the next 10 years. Over and over again.

Every stage? In my experience it has evened out by the time they leave university. At least in my field.

Your "standard for evidence" seems to be along the lines of "When I've been in the doctors surgery I've seen more women than men in there, therefore health care spending is higher on women " 😆😆😆

Hey, guess what? When I go to the doctors I notice about equal numbers of men and women in the waiting room. That's clear proof that men and women receive equal amounts of health care spending.

"Thesis" (did you mean hypothesis?) debunked 😆

Also it’s almost always mum that goes to the doctors with children and teens that bumps it up too.

OK, I'll bite. If your expertise is employment, as you say it is, kindly show us the evidence there is prejudice against women here.

Happy to..

And please don't go quoting the usual media troll of a difference in salary for sexes, as obviously there are multiple factors impacting on these such as qualifications, opting to work part time, taking leave of absence to raise kids, etc, etc, etc

You're very quick to dismiss part time work and childcare when in fact these are huge factors in women's career development and earning potential. As a society we assume women will take on the bulk of childcare responsibilities and therefore are the one's who are more likely to work part time or flexibly. What would actually make a huge difference to women's career development would be for more men to work part time or flexibly around childcare.

But you wanted me to share my expertise on this so here you are...

School & University
There are a number of studies that show children as young as 6 have 'gendered' perceptions when it comes to careers. When asked to draw certain professions children will draw a female nurse, teacher etc but a male doctor or scientist.

These perceptions continue into their teens and young adulthood and there are a couple of career development theories which suggests young people will sacrifice interests before choosing a career which goes against their 'sex type'. This means they will choose a stereotypical male or female career path even if their interests lie in a non-stereotypical route.

We also see evidence in subject choices with boys choosing subjects that are more likely to lead to degrees linked to high earning careers.

When university students are asked what they value/look for in a career women are more likely to prize future flexibility over international work and other things that help progress your career - there is some evidence of women choosing future flexibility in anticipation of needing it in the future (even if this is done subconsciously).

In the workplace
Women are more likely to work flexibly and part time which have an obvious impact on earnings and career progression.

Women are more likely to choose careers that pay less (back to gendered career choices).

Women are more likely to take on additional responsibility which is socially responsible rather than something that will support career development ( a particularly stark example of this is in academia with female academics more likely to work on committees that improve the experience of staff and students while male academics focus on research and publications and don't get me started on the impact of maternity lave on female academics!)

Worldwide 75% of unpaid labour is carried out by women and is the main reason many women choose to work part time.
As women have joined the labour market and increased their paid working hours, men haven’t increased their unpaid working hours meaning women have just increased their overall working hours

A higher proportion of women work in professional careers BUT they are still underrepresented in senior positions.

Impact of the pandemic
Women saw an increase in redundancies, unemployment and an increase in claiming unemployment benefits during the pandemic

More women were furloughed

Mothers and women from minority ethnic groups were particularly effected.

32% of women were responsible for childcare full time compared to 19% of men.

61% of working dad’s alternated childcare with partners compared to 34% of women.

In May 2020 78% of job losses were women and mothers were 47% more likely to lose their job.

Mothers were 1.5x more likely than fathers to have either lost or quit their jobs since the start of the first lockdown.

35% of mothers lost work or hours due to lack of childcare support.

Dear Madam/Sir

"Thesis" (did you mean hypothesis?) debunked 😆

Eh No, I meant thesis. Perhaps try looking up a word before clumsily commenting on a word that you clearly can't comprehend....

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
thesis
/ˈθiːsɪs/
noun
1.
a statement or theory that is put forward as a premise to be maintained or proved.
"his central thesis is that psychological life is not part of the material world"

P.s Apologies to those of an obviously sensitive nature here on this thread, if this reposte comes across as anyway arrogant or smug in any way..... ;)

P.p.s. it must just be a male thing ;) ha ha

Your posts read like they'd been put through Chat GTP to sound more academic. It reminded me of some of the undergraduate essays I mark where they student hasn't quite done the research required so is trying to cover it up by using excessive academic language.

Your use of the word thesis was interesting (and an AI tell) as it's not typically used in the way you were using it.

Oh and I would have bet my mortgage on you being male from your first post.

Look lady I can assure you that my posts are all my own.

Whatever they remind you of is totally irrelevant to the thread also tbh.

I might suggest you assess your undergrad assignments with a more open mind in future too, & simply realise the correct use of a word such as thesis in context, is just a sign of being someway articulate, & not necessarily using a bot. Jog on!

God yes the maleness just jumps off the page doesn’t it @HighLadyofTheNightCourt. Why do males like to come on Mumsnet to try and tell us how wrong we all are!! And norm ally end up getting their arse handed to them but still along they come!

He's coming across as someone of no more than 19 years of age with no tertiary education who hasn't left his bedroom for quite some time....

Oh, apart from to go to his local doctors' surgery in pursuit of raw data on health spending by counting the people in the waiting room 😆

Have a touched a nerve here?
It sounds like you really don’t like being challenged. And I’m guessing being challenged by intelligent, articulate women doesn’t sit well with you.

And your use of the word thesis didn’t suit the context of the conversation and it was clearly an attempt to use big, important words to show us how clever the only man in the room is. It just looked ridiculous.

I'm getting the feeling that @ThatDaringEagle isn't used to having to converse with women who will argue back!

I also stand by my suspicions of AI usage, or at least the 'synomyns' button on word 😂

Indeed! But he's a man and knows best don't ya know!

Look so sorry (ahem) to try to return this thread to the topic on hand I.e AIBU
To think that it's really a man's world?

Here is what Google AI says about the different level of health expenditure on the sexes.

While there isn't a single, definitive percentage of the health budget specifically allocated to women versus men, it's generally understood that women tend to utilize a larger portion of healthcare resources due to a variety of factors including longer lifespans, specific health needs like maternity care, and higher rates of chronic conditions. However, research also indicates that men's health research and funding may be disproportionately lower than women's, despite certain conditions impacting men more severely.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Women's Health Needs:
Women have unique health needs throughout their lives, including reproductive health, pregnancy, and menopause, which contribute to higher healthcare utilization.

Out-of-Pocket Spending:
Several reports suggest that women spend more out-of-pocket on healthcare than men, even when excluding maternity care, indicating a potential gap in insurance coverage or access to affordable healthcare.

Research Disparities:
Some studies highlight that men's health research receives less funding compared to women's health research, despite certain diseases affecting men more severely.

Specific Health Conditions:
Certain conditions like breast cancer, osteoporosis, and eating disorders are more prevalent in women, while others like lung and colorectal cancers, heart disease, and injuries from traffic accidents are more common in men.

Age and Morbidity:
Per capita health expenditure increases with age for both men and women, with a sharper increase for women from 60 and men from 55, reflecting higher morbidity in older ages.

(Note: the above was generated by a bot, hence no use of the word thesis!!)

And this is the data on the research spending, also disproportionately favoring female health:

The Nuzzo Letter

The Nuzzo Letter
The Nuzzo Letter
Read in the Substack app
Open app
NIH Funding of Men's and Women's Health
Graph of the Week
James L. Nuzzo
Nov 18, 2024

This week’s graphs illustrate how much money the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the United States spends on research specifically related to men’s health and women’s health.

Key Points

• The majority of the NIH’s research budget is not sex-specific. Each year, about 80% of the NIH’s research budget goes toward projects that are neither male- nor female-specific. This non-sex-specific funding amounts to about 20-30 billion dollars per year.

• Of the approximate 20% of the budget that is allocated to sex-specific research, most of that budget goes toward women’s health (i.e., diseases or conditions that are female-specific or that predominately affect women).

• Each year, about 14% of the NIH’s research budget goes toward women’s health and about 6% goes toward men’s health. This amounts to about 3.5 – 4.5 billion dollars per year for women’s health and 1.5 – 2 billion dollars per year for men’s health. The NIH invests about half as much money into men’s health than women’s health research. into men’s health than women’s health research.

https://jameslnuzzo.substack.com/p/nih-funding-of-mens-and-womens-health

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18439060/

Summary: Women tend to use significantly more services and spend more health care dollars than men. The greatest disparity in health care spending between men and women has been noted in the population aged 45 to 64 years.

I never understand why men are obsessed with women not being able to compete with men in football. They don't bang on about it in any other sport I can think of. Male and female gymnasts aren't constantly compared, for example.

When the Swiss women's team were beaten 7-1 by a boys team recently, the glee male commenters on social media took in pointing this out was bizarre. It was intended to be a training match for the women, not some sort of proof that they could beat boys. Even as teenagers, boys are bigger, faster and stronger. That's why women compete with women. The anger about women's football is weird.

Women's football has been pushed massively in recent years, for whatever reason. The men's game and teams are subsidising the women's game because most of the interest is in the men's game because it's predominantly a men's sport, going back to the mid 19th century when men invented it and introduced the rules and codes and set up leagues and clubs.

Hockey and netball are more women's sports, yet all the money and publicity keeps getting pushed into football. A sport like tennis has always been both men and women (i.e. Wimbledon).

In a football mad country like the UK for example. Most men love football. Most women don't. It's predominantly a male sport, even if some women play it or are fans. The interest just isn't there.

Aaaarghh! Again with this obsession. Women play women. Our competitions count too! What dies it matter whether we can beat men????

Or boys.

Supply and demand. If the demand was there to watch it, of course the pubs would show it if it meant the pubs were full (as they are during the big men's tournaments).

The reality is men aren't really interested, so it'd be down to women to pack out the pubs and then it'd certainly be shown everywhere. If women aren't interested enough either, then the pubs won't bother.