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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Non-binary teacher?

1000 replies

Thompson198 · 04/07/2025 07:23

Name change.
I’ve got a 5 year old daughter due to go into year 2 in September. We’ve just been told that the teacher for next year is a non-binary/‘non-gender-conforming’ man who wants to be referred to by ‘Mx’ (pronounced mix) and they/them pronouns.
Quite a few of the parents have already complained and started looking for other places at local schools because of this.
what do you think?
My daughter has SEN and is one of the youngest in her class, I worry how she’s going to be able to keep up with the pronouns and understand this without us having to teach her about gender ideology at her age. My husband is extremely against teaching her gender ideology, especially so young, I’m not the most positive about it either but don’t feel as strongly as him. He also doesn’t want her being at the school in September but they have been very supportive for her so far and I’m concerned it might not be the same elsewhere.
Thoughts? How would you feel if this was your child’s teacher?

OP posts:
MarigoldsOnTheMoon · 04/07/2025 13:58

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 13:23

There was no desire from men to access these spaces, as they had their own and were at no risk in their own. Transgender women have no safe spaces now as no one wants them to darken their doorsteps.

I honestly don't see the problem here . What is stopping transpersons campaigning for a third space? For trans or gender neutral cubicles? Those of us who are disabled had to campaign for our own accessible loos. How are transpersons less capable than we are of advocating for their own spaces? It does no favours to infantilise marginalised groups. They need to be able to stand on their own two feet and ask for what they want and need. It isn't the problem of girls and women. We have our own issues as a marginalised group to campaign for .

TimeFliesin2046 · 04/07/2025 13:59

AnnaFrith · 04/07/2025 13:56

What effort do you think men need to make to be deemed transgender? If you think they need to anything more than say 'I'm a woman' you are being extremely transphobic.

(And men can't become female, however much effort they put in).

Yes, I've been told more than once that transwomen don't owe us femininity, by which they mean a man doesn't have to change a single thing about himself to be seen as a transwoman so what effort would they be going to exactly? All they have to do is say "I'm a woman." Maybe they'll put on a nice flowery blouse if they want to make a bit more effort.

ridl14 · 04/07/2025 14:01

Optimustime · 04/07/2025 07:35

The naming/title is a small issue. I would be most worried by it seeping into teaching like through carpet time stories pushing gender ideology, comments like "or she could be a boy". You won't know what goes on in the classroom.

Yes I'd be more worried about this, I guess it's more a discussion to be had at home though. I am a teacher and privately think the Mx thing is stupid but I'd never express that at work. I also think even without a non binary teacher, there's nothing to stop another child coming in and expressing similar ideas on the playground, so kids are likely to encounter it in some capacity and need the same explanation and discussion and listening at home.

I worked in a secondary school with a teacher who went by Mx - also a trainee, so guessed from OP's post it was also a young and inexperienced teacher! I'd met them before the summer as a woman going by she pronouns, then they decided to launch the year as they/them/Mx. I really struggled to remember the pronoun change and just referred to them as their name for ease.

We also had a visiting workshop - not on the topic of gender/sexuality - where one session was led by a woman who would only refer to women as "people who identify as women", and kept correcting the 12-13 year old kids if they said "women". Thought it was really odd and unnecessary

LittleBitofBread · 04/07/2025 14:04

Whatafustercluck · 04/07/2025 13:32

Not really, unless the teacher wanted the children to swear allegiance to the non binary/ trans movement.

Calling someone they/them is equivalent to ‘swearing allegiance’ though; it’s part of an ideology.

MagpiePi · 04/07/2025 14:06

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 13:37

You might not be, but there are plenty of people on this thread and in the world that are demonising trans people. Less so men in general. I literally cannot fathom the amount of hate trans people get being directed at men, despite them being far more common and far more likely to cause women harm - in public or in private. The demonisation therefore has nothing to do with a worry about womens safety and everything to do with the fact transwomen are 'different'.

Well tbf, men saying they are women have a higher rate of sexual offending than men who don’t say they are women, so they have brought on themselves to some extent and women are right to be wary of them when they insist on entering women’s spaces where they know they are not welcome.

I literally can’t fathom the amount of claiming that trans people are victims of hate, when all we are doing is saying we don’t believe your gender ideology and stay out of our spaces.

TimeFliesin2046 · 04/07/2025 14:07

MagpiePi · 04/07/2025 14:06

Well tbf, men saying they are women have a higher rate of sexual offending than men who don’t say they are women, so they have brought on themselves to some extent and women are right to be wary of them when they insist on entering women’s spaces where they know they are not welcome.

I literally can’t fathom the amount of claiming that trans people are victims of hate, when all we are doing is saying we don’t believe your gender ideology and stay out of our spaces.

Telling men "No" has always been categorised as hate. Women have always been told they're wrong for having boundaries. This is just the latest incarnation.

LittleBitofBread · 04/07/2025 14:07

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 13:39

It's not an old chestnut. It's a fact. Men have absolutely no need to pretend to be something they aren't to access a victim. What's the gain in being a transwoman to do it?

So if they don’t need to, why did these ones in the examples given?

Helleofabore · 04/07/2025 14:09

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 13:39

It's not an old chestnut. It's a fact. Men have absolutely no need to pretend to be something they aren't to access a victim. What's the gain in being a transwoman to do it?

When people begin to understand just how many male people derive intrinsic benefit, that has nothing to do with their own safety, from being in a female single sex space it starts to come into focus. And this for all male people, over the age of about 8 years old, regardless of having a gender identity or not.

For some male people just knowing that they are in that space and them being there is likely to cause some female people to be uncomfortable or even distressed is the benefit. This an act of intimidation by that male person. And they are the ones who post photos and videos of themselves in those spaces on line. The act of posting them just continues the intimidation of that action.

For some male people, the act of being in those spaces is a sexually attractive opportunity. Examples of these are the male people who self publish themselves masturbating in the female single sex spaces. Often with toilet noises being made by female people and children being features. There was a thread of twitter videos that is now lost, but it was twitter videos self published by these male people. It cannot be claimed that this is not happening.

There are many reasons for male people to enter female single sex spaces. The relevance of discussing it has a few aspects. One is that one group has now forced a loop hole that has significantly reduced safeguarding around this.

There continues to be this disconnect in logic, ignoring all the evidence, that a group of male people should be considered safe to include at all while keeping all other male people excluded. Plus of course, it is not just about safety for female people, it is about the need for privacy from all male people as well.

If male people have successfully convinced policy makers that a group of them should have access while still excluding others, it means that female people have less confidence in making appropriate and safe decisions for themselves. When there is signs up in female toilets educating female people that just because someone looks like they shouldn't be there that they should be kind and not react negatively at all.

There have even been signs and campaigns that are designed to stop female people showing what is considered micro aggressions that cause hurt to male people. So, if female people are being shamed for leaving single sex spaces when faced with any male person over the age of 8 years old being there, there is the issue.

This causes female people to be unsure as to what they should or should not do. This increases the potential for them to be directly or indirectly harmed, which is a harm in and of itself.

A male person who presents as a male person who enters a female single sex space causes a particular reaction. While we are told that one entering a female single sex space that might be transgender has to be treated as another female person. When they are not. And when there is no evidence at all that a male person at any stage of transition, or with any transgender identity is less of a risk than any other male. The policies are contradicting the evidence and contradicting the very reason for sex segregated spaces in the first place.

What's the gain in being a transwoman to do it?

The gain is knowing that due to the current media campaigns and education efforts that female people are less likely to feel that they can react as they instinctively need to.

The gain is knowing that some people in society will support them being there even though they know that it might cause a female person in that space to be distressed.

The gain is knowing that they can attempt to argue that they should be in that space. There are so many 'gains'. I have yet to discover what any female person 'gains' from a male person accessing a single sex provision.

TimeFliesin2046 · 04/07/2025 14:10

LittleBitofBread · 04/07/2025 14:07

So if they don’t need to, why did these ones in the examples given?

And, of course, the gain in being a transwoman to do it, is that it gains them access ot spaces where women and children are uniquely vulnerable, and as well all know, vulnerable women are easier to victimize. I honestly don't know how people can't see that.

LittleBitofBread · 04/07/2025 14:12

TheWonderhorse · 04/07/2025 13:44

No she doesn't.

She says they've been told the teacher is a non-binary man. Who called the teacher a man?

If it was a woman they'd have said 'gender-non-conforming woman who wants to be called they/them'

Helleofabore · 04/07/2025 14:13

Remember though, there are male people with transgender identities that are not those calling themselves women who demand access into female single sex spaces. Including this one recently:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5355097-the-guardian-trans-australian-kicked-out-of-toilet?page=1

poetryandwine · 04/07/2025 14:18

blackbirdevensong · 04/07/2025 13:46

I'd be writing to the Head, LA, and school governors.

Do you mean the Head and Governors who hired this teacher? What do you think that would accomplish?

TheHereticalOne · 04/07/2025 14:18

MaggiesShadow · 04/07/2025 13:36

I appreciate that you haven't descended into unnecessarily insulting language to make your points, but I don't think you're quite grasping what I've said.

I haven't made my own personal stance on this issue known. What I've said repeatedly is that I take time to explain to my children that other people have different views on this. That is an irrefutable fact.

For every person who is staunchly gender critical, there will be someone who isn't. Crying about it on the internet isn't going to change that. Forcing SEN children into new environments so they don't have to use Mx or they/them isn't going to change that. It just is. Trans people just are. Nonbinary people just are. In the same way that people are religious whether I believe in their gods or not.

So I do not and have not taught my children anything about sex versus gender. What I HAVE taught them is that people are different and hold different views. And as long as their choices and beliefs don't do harm to us, or cause danger for us, then we can accept their beliefs and views and get on with our lives.

My sixteen-year-old daughter has had a friend since they were in nursery. This friend is a biological girl. One day a few years ago, she decided that she didn't quite feel like a girl and decided to go from 'she' to 'they' and picked an androgenous nickname.

It didn't harm me, my daughter, or anyone else to use 'they' and call them their nickname. It literally had no impact on us. We talked about how some people believe that gender can be changed or more fluid than other people believe. How some people believe that biological sex and gender can be and are different things.

I truly do not believe that there are catastrophic consequences in teaching children that people can have different belief systems.

Teaching your children about the existence of other belief systems is one thing but I have to ask whether you routinely present them all as equally valid.

When teaching your children that some people believe the earth is flat, that vaccines are a government tracking conspiracy or that men have the right to murder women (the boring old definition ones) who bring perceived shame on the family do you present these belief systems neutrally, and as worthy of respect as the alternative?

If not, why not?

I do not, and the reason is that I think it is important for society to order itself around objectively provable, observable and repeatable fact, and a rule of law - applicable to everyone - based on it.

Because the alternative to that is organising around the whims of whichever person or group happens to be the biggest bully in the playground at any given time with no recourse or appeal to reason, logic or any objective standard at all.

It's not for me.

SerafinasGoose · 04/07/2025 14:22

BlueMum16 · 04/07/2025 07:32

I was coming to post this.

By you using their name and address them as Mx and the correct pronouns your DC will likely just follow. Your DC will not know anything different.

Are they a new teacher? How did the current year 2 find it?

Kids don't address their teachers by name all the time. I'd rather be addressed by family name only than navigate the current minefield and histrionics if anyone deviates. But the usual school standard is 'Sir' or 'Miss', much as I dislike the disparity in status between the two (in the US it's Ma'am which is much more equal). Digression this may be, but in this teacher's shoes I'd have to absorb the convention as it is when otherwise I'd insist on the title 'Ms'.

The whole world might not be as I'd like it to be, but it isn't about to change for my benefit. I'm not keen on the inherent sexism but this is the well-established custom. If, as a woman, I don't like it, then non-binary teaching staff don't have to like it either.

Welcome to 'equality'.

BundleBoogie · 04/07/2025 14:25

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 13:35

My daughter was sexually assaulted by her best friends dad, he was sentenced last month. I understand men are a threat, in any situation. They do not need to pretend to be a woman in order to gain access to a victim. The idea that they do is beyond stupid. Precisely nobody is going to go to the effort of becoming female in order to commit assault.

It might help you think of it in terms of opportunity.

Very sadly, your DDs abuser saw or created an opportunity and took it.

Do you think that if he hadn’t had a daughter who befriended a girl(s?) to provide him with the opportunity that he wouldn’t be an abuser?

Or might he have had to create a different opportunity? Maybe running a club for young children (like Scouts) or a sports club (football seems to have attracted some terrible abusers)?

Abusers rely on things like plausible deniability (as well as other things like coercion and blackmail etc) which in many cases is successful. Just look at the gymnastics coaches who were abusing girls for years and everyone ignoring the girls speaking out. Jimmy Saville for that matter - he groomed a huge network of people to turn a blind eye and silence victims to protect him.

Many abusers aim for longevity in their offending so creating protection for their offending takes time and dedication. If they just grabbed a child off the street and used a nearby alleyway, they might be successful that time but then cctv/police/courts etc would put a stop to their offending pretty quickly. An abuser football coach on the other hand carefully grooms parents and children alike.

If a man is no good at football, someone else is running the Scout groups and he doesn’t have a daughter to provide potential victims, he now has another option. One that exempts him from all normal safeguarding a man is subjected to and raises him above all suspicion with anyone concerned about his behaviour silenced and removed. He can identify as trans and involve himself in a girls swimming team (or enrol on a beauty therapy course where girls strip were coerced into stripping almost naked in front of him like Adam Graham did).

He gets to wander round the girls changing rooms to his hearts content and as an added bonus can get the receptionist who tried to prevent him using the ladies changing rooms disciplined.

If a man was an abuser, gender ideology hands him opportunities on a plate. The swimming scenario is happening in real life btw. Several different men in various countries have cottoned onto this.

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 14:26

LittleBitofBread · 04/07/2025 14:07

So if they don’t need to, why did these ones in the examples given?

Becuase they are sexual predators who happen to be trans. One doesn't equal the other.

Helleofabore · 04/07/2025 14:26

TheignT · 04/07/2025 13:16

He is identifying as a human being rather than a human man or woman. I honestly can't see the problem. He is a person and just like I can say I want to identify as a pensioner/a parent or whatever so can he.

Actually while he's at work he can just identify as a teacher because that's the important thing when he's teaching.

Edited

You can identify however you wish. The issue comes from when you demand other people treat you as if your identity is based in material reality.

The issue comes from when anyone is expected to use demanded language that suits another person's philosophical belief about themselves. What other group gets this special treatment?

AngryCustomer · 04/07/2025 14:27

I would be asking the SLT, governors, and my MP if it’s acceptable for adults to display other fetishes in this school?

TimeFliesin2046 · 04/07/2025 14:28

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 14:26

Becuase they are sexual predators who happen to be trans. One doesn't equal the other.

No, but they can and do equal the other sometimes. And, at the end of the day, they're all men, whether they're regular men, transwomen or just pretending. That's what it boils down to. You're vastly more likely to be attacked by a man than another woman, so we need to keep them out.

Verv · 04/07/2025 14:30

Oh fuck that, I'd remove her and find somewhere else.

A teacher who believes that not conforming to the stereotypes associated with his sex class means that he is no longer a part of it is prioritising ideology over material reality - nope
He's also preemptively compelling speech - nope.
The levels of self indulgence amongst that particular demographic means that their "identity" comes first.

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 14:32

BundleBoogie · 04/07/2025 14:25

It might help you think of it in terms of opportunity.

Very sadly, your DDs abuser saw or created an opportunity and took it.

Do you think that if he hadn’t had a daughter who befriended a girl(s?) to provide him with the opportunity that he wouldn’t be an abuser?

Or might he have had to create a different opportunity? Maybe running a club for young children (like Scouts) or a sports club (football seems to have attracted some terrible abusers)?

Abusers rely on things like plausible deniability (as well as other things like coercion and blackmail etc) which in many cases is successful. Just look at the gymnastics coaches who were abusing girls for years and everyone ignoring the girls speaking out. Jimmy Saville for that matter - he groomed a huge network of people to turn a blind eye and silence victims to protect him.

Many abusers aim for longevity in their offending so creating protection for their offending takes time and dedication. If they just grabbed a child off the street and used a nearby alleyway, they might be successful that time but then cctv/police/courts etc would put a stop to their offending pretty quickly. An abuser football coach on the other hand carefully grooms parents and children alike.

If a man is no good at football, someone else is running the Scout groups and he doesn’t have a daughter to provide potential victims, he now has another option. One that exempts him from all normal safeguarding a man is subjected to and raises him above all suspicion with anyone concerned about his behaviour silenced and removed. He can identify as trans and involve himself in a girls swimming team (or enrol on a beauty therapy course where girls strip were coerced into stripping almost naked in front of him like Adam Graham did).

He gets to wander round the girls changing rooms to his hearts content and as an added bonus can get the receptionist who tried to prevent him using the ladies changing rooms disciplined.

If a man was an abuser, gender ideology hands him opportunities on a plate. The swimming scenario is happening in real life btw. Several different men in various countries have cottoned onto this.

If he can run a club and abuse children, why would he need to take female hormones and transition to a woman (putting aside whether or not we believe that's possible). That's the bit that's lost me.

The person that abused my daughter was absolutely taking advantage of having access to young girls through his children, but that's because he is an awful person and a sexual predator. Is the next logical step - all dads are a threat and children shouldn't be allowed to socialise with other people's parents?

My personal opinion is that extrapolating the awful stories of any bad actor and using them to castigate a whole group is dangerous and in some cases (this being a prime example) very nasty. When people stereotype any other minority we rightly call it out (or those of us with a conscience do), so why do people feel so comfortable doing it with this issue.

borntobequiet · 04/07/2025 14:32

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 12:02

Yes we do. Miss Mrs or Ms are already in common usage. Why do we have to respect the use of Ms more than Mx.

And actually why do you want to be the sort of person that doesn't respect others.

Edited

Because Ms is an alternative title to Mrs and Miss that doesn’t indicate marital status, which used at least to be problematic for women in employment and in everyday life, whereas Mx is designed to obscure one’s sex.

Marital status is a societal convention and can be changed. Sex is biologically based and cannot be changed.

The one, Ms, reflects reality and the other, Mx, reflects falsity and delusion.

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 14:33

TimeFliesin2046 · 04/07/2025 14:28

No, but they can and do equal the other sometimes. And, at the end of the day, they're all men, whether they're regular men, transwomen or just pretending. That's what it boils down to. You're vastly more likely to be attacked by a man than another woman, so we need to keep them out.

Edited

In the same way men can and do equal the other. Are there entire threads dedicated to preventing men becoming teachers in case they start randomly promoting toxic male narratives. Of course not.

Helleofabore · 04/07/2025 14:35

Mumble12 · 04/07/2025 13:23

There was no desire from men to access these spaces, as they had their own and were at no risk in their own. Transgender women have no safe spaces now as no one wants them to darken their doorsteps.

Can you please provide evidence where male people with transgender identities are not safe in male single sex spaces? Plus can you link us to the campaign to then make those male single sex spaces safe for ALL male people?

There is actually a male person with a transgender identity who documents his visits to male single sex toilets in an effort to show other people that they will be safe there.

You have also just ignored the many mixed sex facilities that are available to use. There are many mixed sex facilities available to use. Strangely enough, we know this because of discussions with female people with transgender identities. They have told us that they even have websites where they can plan their days so that they can use mixed sex facilities.

If female people with transgender identities can do this, why is it considered outside the ability of male people with transgender identities?

onehorserace · 04/07/2025 14:36

poetryandwine · 04/07/2025 14:18

Do you mean the Head and Governors who hired this teacher? What do you think that would accomplish?

It will make them look at their policies related to this which they legally have to possess.

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