To not follow school uniform rules?

[RichardOsmanTheSecond]

Daughter is 14. I'm beginning to wonder if she has autism. She is VERY picky about socks and shoes. She has worn the same specific school shoes and non-school shoes for the last 4+ years.

She changes school in September and they have different shoe requirements.

Her school shoes broke last week. They are not repairable even short term. We'd normally just replace them but I'm having to do overtime to pay for all her new uniform and kit. I dont want to spend £50 on shoes for 15 days. Plus I couldn't get them until Sunday anyway.

I am pro-uniform and have always followed the rules (even if they are stupid).

I sent in a note explaining that her shoes broke, we wont be replacing them as she is leaving in a few weeks and is wearing plain black, unbranded walking boots. Her boots are perfectly practical, and at this time of year are no scruffier than all the other school shoes!

Yesterday she got a break detention for a uniform violation. She told me it was because she forgot her pencil case. I got a call today to say she has had a second uniform violation and she will be getting an afterschool detention. Turns out, both were about her shoes. They dont care that she has 15 school days. She needs to wear school shoes.

I did not give them permission to keep her after school. My daughter would rather have detentions than deal with new shoes and the idea of wearing the school spares freaks her out. Thats why she lied aboit the pencil case (we've spoken about that).

Now I have to meet with the head of year to "discuss my concerns". Thats booked for Wednessday. My daughter can wear her boots until we have met. There will be less than 2 weeks at school by then.

Its ludicrous. I will phone on Tuesday to rearrange the meeting for later in the week because Im not wasting my time (and presumably the HOY has better things to do too). I'll just do that over and over if necessary until they either see sense or give up.

So AIBU?
Yes - you and your daughter are not special. Stop making the teachers jobs even harder.
No - the school are being ridiculous and need to use common sense at the end of the school year.

I’d ask the school to provide the undoubtedly numerous studies which show how the choice of school shoes affects learning 🤔 There must be lots of them to make schools so bloody pedantic on such ridiculous rules.

No way would I be buying new school shoes for such a short space of time. They won’t be any use for her new school and are a huge waste of money.

I bought DS a pair of shoes at the end of one term
because his school were being arseholes about the uniform, only to find they didn’t fit come September. That was nearly £50 wasted because his school were being picky. And don’t get me started on the £35 jumpers which looked like rags within a few weeks!

Except some people who are autistic would absolutely hate to not be wearing the ‘correct’ shoes as they wouldn't like to be seen as a ‘rule-breaker’. The DD has been wearing shoes that both her and the school approve of, the DM doesnt want to buy her a replacement pair, which is understandable. The school dont want to amend their rules. Again, this is understandable as the reason for her not wearing the ‘correct’ shoes isnt because of her autism, it’s because her DM doesnt want to buy any more.

So choose a school that doesnt have a uniform policy then!

@Divebar2021 - where I work, the students wear a branded polo shirt and sweatshirt, optional fleece in the winter. Black trousers or skirt. The uniform isn't gendered, it's simple and it's practical. I don't mind it.

School are being ridiculous. I'm glad your daughter is leaving.

That’s sounds perfect to me.

Now I have to meet with the head of year to "discuss my concerns". Thats booked for Wednessday. My daughter can wear her boots until we have met. There will be less than 2 weeks at school by then.

Its ludicrous. I will phone on Tuesday to rearrange the meeting for later in the week because Im not wasting my time (and presumably the HOY has better things to do too). I'll just do that over and over if necessary until they either see sense or give up.

YABU. This has become a bigger deal than it should be because the school either didn't get or ignored or misunderstood your note about the shoes (a call or visit would have been better) and your daughter lied to you about the situation. You have a solution (keep the Wednesday meeting and talk to the school in person and explain), so unless you and/or your daughter's other parent are completely unable to get to the meeting, just go.

Yes I have

"Yesterday she got a break detention for a uniform violation. She told me it was because she forgot her pencil case. I got a call today to say she has had a second uniform violation and she will be getting an afterschool detention. Turns out, both were about her shoes. They dont care that she has 15 school days. She needs to wear school shoes.
I did not give them permission to keep her after school. My daughter would rather have detentions than deal with new shoes and the idea of wearing the school spares freaks her out. Thats why she lied aboit the pencil case (we've spoken about that)."

@Soontobe60 why should I? I sent DS to the best school for him, they really need to be sensible about uniform, especially so close to the end of term. Why on earth should parents be forced to spend money on things that their children will only get a couple of weeks wear out of?

Fortunately he’s no longer in education so it isn’t an issue any more.

Because she was worried I'd make her wear the school spares.

Then the schools should simply make the decision for them. Ultimately, a school isn’t a democracy.

I know primary is different but there were a number of non-uniform primaries near us, all very popular, and the absolute best of them all, consistently outstanding, was non-uniform. But when we visited a whole bunch of schools, there was zero difference between the kids, the staff and the atmosphere along the lines of clothing.

I didn’t think you were being difficult, I just couldn’t understand the situation. And that’s because the shoes in the new school aren’t school shoes at all, but specialist workwear.

I would go into her current school, properly explain the situation (ie don’t call the new footwear school shoes) and say she’ll be wearing what she’s been wearing for the last couple of days until the end of term.

What can they do? Nothing much.

Even if a school has a uniform policy (vast majority do), they must make reasonable adjustments for SEN (whether diagnosed or suspected). The op isn't expecting them to relax the rules to accommodate completely inappropriate footwear, such as Nike Air Force. She's gone for a very reasonable and sensible compromise.

Op, I sympathise with the school shoes issue. My 8yo dd had a pair for most of the year that she was happy with and they gave up the ghost a week ago. I explained that I wasn't going to buy her expensive ones for the remainder of the year and we spent more than an hour in the shoe shop trying on every single pair. The new ones are now problematic due to seams in the wrong place rubbing her feet, the velcro straps looking messy (her words) and her being unable to make them feel 'equal'. They were fine in the shop, but that's very different to wearing them all day every day.

With respect though, I think you went into battle with the school, rather than communicated to them the problem before what happened. In your situation, I'd have explained the sensory issues and asked them if we could come to a compromise, not just assumed that my solution was ok with them. Yes, many uniform policies are unnecessarily draconian. But in my experience, most schools will support a parent/ child who is struggling - whatever the reason.

Wrong. If a person has been diagnosed with autism (so not in the op’s case atm) then the school MUST make reasonable adjustments. This could include a change of school shoe.
im sorry you went through that as did your friends- not sure how long ago that was but things have changed now and autism is recognised.

I spoke with someone about it on the phone after the second detention. This is after I had already sent an email and gave my daughter a note in case teachers asked in lessons. This has to be a face to face meeting apparently.

I dont know what else I can tell them. I wont have anything different say in a face to face meeting that I will have to take annual leave for. I cant imagine the HOY wants to spend her time talking about shoes 2 weeks before the student leaves.

The conversation will either be "yes your daughter can wear her boots" in which case why cant that just be said over the phone or "no your daughter has to wear school shoes" which isnt going to happen so will be a complete waste of everyone's time.

Its not like this is even a unique situation they will never have encountered before. Thats what is bothering me! What is the cut off date here they say that minor uniform violations dont matter, especially for students who wont need the stuff again next year?

I feel your pain. I hope your daughter's shoes get comfortable quickly.

The thing is, my daughter didnt have shoes. I couldn't compromise. I don't have anything to compromise with. I told the school the issue and how we were addressing it in the best way we could. I drew their attention to the colour and lack of branding on her boots to try and show we recognised their uniform policy and were not just disregarding it so she could wear Air Force I. If we had options I would have discussed the best options with the school eg if she had 2 pairs of shoes that didnt quite match the uniform.

Yeah, she is not diagnosed. In all honesty I dont know whether it is autism. Sometimes she ticks every box but then sometimes is inconsistent eg if I have to take her to a supermarket, it inevitably ends up with behaving badly and claiming she is overwhelmed. But then, she'll go to a gig with all the pushing and shoving and noise and lights etc and love the "atmosphere". My husband thinks I can be unfair with that. I dont know.

Tbf to her, socks and shoes have always been an issue with her even when she was tiny.

Yes she has. She has explained that her DD would rather do the detentions than get the new shoes.

Perhaps it is about making it more hassle for you to avoid buying the shoes than to buy them. You might find you go to enough lengths by jumping through their hoop, and they OK the boots. A bit like a game of chicken - demonstrate that you care enough about not replacing the shoes and they may back down.

You actually don't need a diagnosis to ask for reasonable adjustments. The school is obliged to offer these based on need, not diagnosis. But it may seem a stretch that having worn regulation shoes all year, she suddenly can't due to SEN. Common sense should come into play given the cost of shoes, the fact she is leaving, her willingness to take the DTs as an alternative and (if this is the case) her record of adherence to the rules. You might need to promise not to tell anyone if they do relax the rules for her.

I hope her new school is spectacular and she is happier next year.

If school are aware of the differences your daughter has then tell them that you feel its a reasonable adjustment

I hate schools that are ridiculous about uniform (see the one local to us who insisted in blazers, tights and trousers in the recent heatwave) and I do like the school we picked for our kids where they relax things within limits - so they were allowed to ditch blazers but not replace them with hoodies or anything like that, and where they've consulted the kids and gone round the local shops to identify that black trainer type shoes are increasingly being sold as "school shoes" and allowed them into uniform with a photo guide of what is allowed and what is pushing it... likewise they limit the logo stuff to the school tie, blazer and PE top and tell us to get to the uniform sales for the rest of the stuff.

Even with PE shorts when the Nike Pro ones sunk in - they got the kids to develop clarification and suggestions about ones which were acceptable and available in local shops rather than just coming down ridiculously on it all.

They also have reasonable adjustments for kids with SEN including things like letting them wear PE kit all day on PE days if they struggle with organising belongings to get changed back into uniform etc (mind you everyone's in PE kit now cos the sports block is being rebuilt!)

It's the sort of school where a quick word with the staff would have got a "yeah they're as black shoes as we're going to insist on with two weeks left of term"

That’s the common sense approach and I bet the children still manage to learn the same maths in those clothes as their shirt tie and blazed peers!

We do well and got a very good Ofsted recently! No rules about nails or hair or anything. Only jewellery rules because of PE.

Completely off topic but just in case relevant:
You can get steel capped lace ups easily
But you can also get steel capped slip on ankle boots, steel capped Wellington boots, and steel capped trainers.
The utc possibly has very specific requirements, but it might help you to know of the options.
(DD does animal care)

You "gave your child a note to explain to her class teachers....."
This might be the reason for the face to face meeting with one of the management team.
Whatever your issues with the uniform policy, whatever your thoughts on SEN exceptions and provisions can you not see how undermining the rules like this also undermines the management person in charge of enforcing this policy? Parents issuing notes like this also potentially disrupts lessons and undermines the standards that the classroom teachers have been asked to enforce whether they agree with them or not. If other students see a "note from mum" out-trumps any rules laid down by the school this can lead to an avalanche of other students and their parents writing little notes over anything they don't agree with. Believe me I have seen this happen.