Unpleasant altercation - who was the most unreasonable?

[zerofeeling]

Took my dogs out today and was trying to park in a small space between two cars on a country lane. As I was inching back to fit into the space I heard a loud crunch 😖

The two men from the car behind had just set off on their walk, as I got out of my car one of them was heading back towards me shouting why did I try to park in such a small space. I said sorry and inspected the front of his car - couldn't see any damage at all, and apart from a tiny paint scuff nothing on my car. I said to him 'i can't see any damage, it doesn't look like I hit you'
Man just glanced over at his car then asked me for my details, I asked is that necessary and said again there's no damage. He said that's not the point you have to give your details if you've been in a collision. He was much taller than me and sort of fronting up to me repeating that he wanted my details and me refusing, saying I don't think it was a collision, I think I might have hit something underneath my car. (For info my Mum and a friend have both been scammed on their insurance by people who claimed all kinds of things after very minor prangs)

Then he took an ID wallet out of his pocket and flipped it open to show a photo and badge and said he's Police. I couldn't tell if it was genuine or not. He held his phone up and said he's filming me refusing to comply with the law.
By this time the other man had come back and also filming me and I started to worry - I'm in a secluded area, with two men who are much bigger than me. I told them I felt intimidated and are they trying to scam me?

I got in my car and tried to shut the door but 1st man held onto it to prevent me. I asked if he's trying to detain me and he said no but I will if you don't give me your details, I've identified myself to you as a police officer. I said you've got no right to detain me. Eventually he let go of the door and I had to turn the car round as the lane is a dead end. Once I turned round he said again that I'm breaking the law by refusing to give my details after a collision and he started to recite the Caution they give when you're arrested! I drove away very shaken up, no idea what consequences to expect.

It’s not for you to look at a car and determine if it’s damaged or not. You heard the noise!

It’s possible, as it happened to my car, the chassis might have become twisted or taken the brunt of the hit at the points a vehicle is designed to absorb impact. My car accident cost the other party’s insurance a fair whack of money as it was underbody damage where he rear ended me.

he was right in asking for your details and you were wrong not to provide them. You could have got in your car earlier instead of arguing with them that they were scamming you, and called the police to ask them to attend, citing that you felt they were impersonating police and were behaving in a threatening manner.

They heard a metal on metal crunch

There is no mention of a "metal on metal" crunch. What else might you have imagined about the circumstances that have you led to your conclusion?

Feel sad with the hostility and lack of understanding here. The 2 men were overly belligerent. You don't need the details if you have the registration number and that was no police officer. Hope you're feeling OK OP.

It turns out both these men are Police. There's been a significant update today but I'm not sure I'm able to discuss it on here without it getting too identifiable - sorry to be annoying!

Well I hope to god the call handler you spoke to was right and you have a case against them for their horrible behaviour

You don’t have to give name and address. You give insurance details.

You failed to stop at the scene of a collision.

That's your first offence.

You failed to provide your details to a person who had reasonable grounds to demand them after you were involved in a collision.

That's your second offence.

If you fail to report the collision to the police within 24 hours you will commit a third offence.

You are in a fair amount of trouble OP.

5 - 10 points on your licence for failing to stop.

Another 5 - 10 points for failing to exchange details.

If you also fail to report the accident you are looking at another 5 - 10 points.

Doesn't matter. The OP has a legal obligation to do it.

Insurance details not name and address.

What are you on about? I’m saying she should have given her details. The amount of people on her seem to believe details in the case of an accident means name and address rather than insurance details is absurd.

You've had a hard time on here Op from people not reading your posts properly.
I can't see what you did wrong especially as you did report to the police afterwards, (which you must do within 24h).

There was no visible physical evidence of damage from a collision. You looked. You reported.
Yes you should give insurance details to the other party but you felt very uncomfortable the way this guy behaved towards you. You can't just go around giving your insurance details to random aggressive men.
I would have been unsettled by two strange angry men near the woods or wherever you walk the dogs, claiming to be police officers. I would not have had the presence of mind to take pictures or video them myself either. I can't tell a genuine police ID from a fake. I'd have driven to a police station as soon as it was safe to get back in the car.

You're most surely not at all being annoying, God bless you
It's imperatively sensible, to just share what you feel comfortable & safe to share
I'm really praying there's a positive outcome for you & you will be apologised to for their hostile, unnecessary intimidation
Please take extra great care of yourself & do something really lovely for dear self
God Bless You&Yours Blissfully 💚

A

If he was police he will simply run your car Reg through the police computer and you will get a call or letter for failing to provide your details and will be asked to make contact with police asap.

Ok maybe it was a metal on bunper crunch. OP acknowledges it was a loud crunch, and the 2 men who'd walked away from their car heard to (as confirmed by OP)

Metal crunches on impact, a crunch sound is different to a bump under the car, or a scrap sound.

She acknowledged she was attempting a maneuver in a tight space, "inching" as she put it she heard the noise, a "crunch" she acknowledged they heard the noise, so it was a reasonably loud crunch, she looked at her car and said the scrap she saw didn't have paint from their car and their car "appeared undamaged". She checked their car because she also thought that was the crunch. But then when she saw them she tried to initially say she hadnt hit their car because there was only a paint scuff on hers. They, quite reasonably imo, said looking wasnt sufficient, the damage may be underneath and wanted her insurance info. Not her personal info, her insurance info. Reasonable when she hit their empty, parked car. Or minimally suspected she had enough to check, and found a paint scuff. And she repeatedly refused to give it, claiming there was no damage.

OP heard a "crunch" and got out her car to check their car so certainly thought she had hit their car and only back tracked when they asked for her insurance info. Which by her own admission she repeatedly refused to give.

I certainly think they'd have been better off taking a photo of her registration and reporting her for fleeing the scene and refusing to provide her insurance info. But they did initially just ask for insurance info, when she refused repeatedly. It was only then they said look were policemen here's our ID and filmed her. OPs only informed the police at all because of advice here

But I do think all this escalated because she did the wrong thing. And let's face it, if a policewoman said she went for a walk with a friend and as she set off she heard a crunch at her vehicle and someone was reversing and checking for damage on her car and that person then refused to give their insurance info because it didn't look damaged to them. We'd all be encouraging her to film the incident and report it. If OP had said sorry it doesnt appear damaged but here's my insurance carrier, then took some photos for her own records and went home this wouldnt have escalated

Not the point. You misread the 'crunch'; maybe you misread the intimidation too.

A long time ago I accidentally drove into the back of another car as we were setting off from traffic lights (so going at a very slow speed). We stopped & checked both cars, no visible damage but we did exchange details. About a mile further up the road, I saw the car’s bumper fall off (as we were travelling along the same road). Had I not seen it with my own eyes, I would have thought scam when the insurance claim came through.

Anyway, long way to say that often damage can be underneath & therefore not visible on first checking.

Him being aggressive isn’t right but he did have a point about wanting your insurance details as there may have been damage that wasn’t necessarily visible at the time.

I hope that these two men get into trouble for this behaviour. As a police officer in this situation he had no right to yield his badge like this as it was a clear intimidation tactic. There wasn’t actually proof of a collision other than a noise which may or may not have been two cars meeting. Jumping straight to filming you and brandishing his badge is simply not on.
officers have had much updated training on situations with lone women and male officers, and two male officers against one quite clearly frightened female will go against all of this training.

you generally need to report any incident that could potentially lead to a claim to your car insurance provider, even if you're not sure if a collision occurred or if you don't intend to make a claim. He had your registration as such may have been enough or at the very least just have needed your insurance company name and that should be enough.

you ideally shouldn’t have refused point blank as unfortunately it’s not up to you to decide if there was a crash and damage (but I do see your position).

however there is no reason for him to get so aggressive so quickly.

You are required by law to give your details. Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act.

You are wrong if you believe that only insurance details are required to be exchanged.

Now I’m dying to know that they are going to get reprimanded at least 😭, to give us some confidence in our police department that they aren’t just cultivating violent angry men who get off on intimidating and abusing women.

They have it on film as evidence of OP breaking the law by not providing details. If they were unreasonable, that's going to be obvious. Remember we only have OP's description of events. It seems unlikely they would film themselves breaking the law if they're police officers. If they were really intimidating, hopefully they do get reprimanded.

Hope you're okay OP. Would be interesting to know the eventual outcome, and whether they'd shared their own video with their superiors.

It is an offence not to give your details, under the road traffic act of 1988. You should have taken photos of both of the cars. Legally you should have exchanged details. You could end up with a fine, points on your licence or even be disqualified , l don't think for a second you would be disqualified. You say you felt uneasy as there were two men and just you in a quiet area, this will have no effect on you not giving him your details. My advice to you would be to ring the police, tell them what happened and that you didn't give your details and they will guide you from there. It will help you, just incase the man whose car you bumped, has already reported it to the police. There is no getting away with this unfortunately. Good luck

Police officers do have a right to show their warrant cards when off duty...

As is usual on MN 90% of the posts are wrong in some way. For those wanting to understand the facts, the relevant law is here, and my own interpretation is:

170/1/b/i OP can claim that there was no damage caused

170/2 Nevertheless, the people claiming to be police had reasonable cause to require OP to give their name & address.

170/3 Despite failing to satisfy 170/2, OP then reported the event and satisfied the Road Traffic Act 1988, Section 170, with all changes known to be in force on or before 30 June 2025.

End of story