This is how we’re sleeping tonight.. or most nights.

[Sulking]

key code:
green - husband
white - DD (5yo)
yellow - DS (3yo)
purple - me.

2am, can’t sleep, being kicked in the ass and stomach.

I could go sleep in their room but I will be even more sore in the morning as I suffer from chronic back pain after my c sections that I have to have particular mattresses/toppers to be comfortable.

AIBU to want to DIY a double-king size bed across the entire back wall of our bedroom just so I can sleep at night?!🤣

This is what we did 🥰🙏🏽

3 and 5 is still very young to be a whole flight of stairs away from your parents at night.

Two platform double beds pushed together to make a giant bed. There's no crack that way. We slept like that for years. We didn't fight the kids being in our bed, they're only young for so long and when one of our children was later assessed as autistic, I realized we made the right decision. There was a lot of anxiety and fear there. I sure as hell wouldn't have them on a different floor to me.

I find it bizarre how many grown ass women on MN have to be with a man, any man, and definitely can't sleep alone, but people are still so rigid about three years olds being on their own.

Not the point of the thread, but....your kids are sleeping on a floor below you? My risk averse self doesn't like that :

They are on a different floor
A burglar entering would reach the kids rooms first
They could leave the house without you hearing

I say this as a person with a 3 storey house!

I have a two doubles pushed together it's bliss. Kids get in without even waking me. Do it!

I am the least crunchy, gentle parent type in the world, but I really don't understand all the "rod for your own back", ""children are manipulating you" etc.

If a child wakes at 3 am because they're scared or looking for comfort they're not doing it to manipulate you. They woke up naturally in a dark room on another floor and looked for literally the only people who are supposed to comfort them.

Half of the posters here would claim they could never let a child cry it out, but how the fuck would they even know there isn't a scared kid crying on another floor?

And please if there is a fire, you're not getting to your kids. I hope you have discussed what to do if you can't get to them.

It's actually really common for kids that age to spend at least some of the night in their parents' bed. I have been through it too and comforted myself a bit knowing that it's their brain development and not a failure of parenting. But I totally see (and remember) that it's untenable if you are to get a healthy amount of uninterrupted sleep. Anything you can do to give yourself a space to sleep - mattress on the floor, separate single bed for you to creep into, add a single bed to the foot of your bed so you are together but separate, build that huge bed - do what you can. And solidarity.

Op I would move house. This isn’t going to get any better. My dc are teens and would only appreciate now being on a different floor to us. There is no way they would want to be so far at any age as a child. Your house needs to feel safe, so that they can relax knowing you are nearby if they need you.

Each to their own, I think. I cuddle my two all day (and at night obviously, when they wake up, can’t get back to sleep and need comforting) but we all need our sleep. I had 2 under 2 and it sounds like I had better quality sleep than OP. Back pain is no fun and as we get older it can linger long after a problem has been resolved.

I do wonder if these changes in sleeping arrangements are the start of the lack of resilience in many children these days

I love the child cuddles, DD ends up in with me every night and I don’t mind one bit. But I do have a big bed and no husband in it.

With 2 cats on the bed too though even that is a squeeze!

We are mammals. Mammals like to sleep together. Throughout most of human history people have slept together communally.
In the past poorer families would have been in one room and richer children would have slept with a nurse maid or nanny. Even richer men and women would have bedded down with their servants before the 19th century.

Also lots of people complain if their spouse wants to sleep apart from them (not me but fine with the kids in bed!) but we expect children to do it from so young when it goes against every instinct.

So actually no, not co sleeping is far newer as a human behaviour and also not universal around the world. Most Asian cultures co sleep and they are seen as having independent/ resilient kids.

I’d go and sleep in their room. I couldn’t cope with that. But I hate being touched at all while I’m sleeping. I was very strict with my kids sleeping in their own beds and definitely haven’t missed out on cuddles

Resilience doesn't come from being forced to do things before you are ready, being shamed or scared.

True resilience comes from having safe spaces and supportive parents who meet your needs.

I’m glad I’m not the only person who thinks the 3 storey house is somewhat to blame here , you really need to be sleeping on the same floor with such small children

I feel your pain OP. We co slept when they were tiny and then had years and years of bed hopping. My DD15 still climbs into bed with someone if she wakes in the night, even into her 13 year old brother’s bed sometimes. We have created little co-sleeping monsters!

One thing that I did years ago we to spend a small fortune on upgrading every bed and mattress in the house. Now all bedrooms have at least a double with premium mattresses and bedding. That way I can always decamp to a comfy, empty bed if I wake up to more people in my bed than I’d like.

But I also just wanted to ask about your post c-section back pain… your youngest is 3, you shouldn’t still be suffering the after effects of a c section. Have you seen someone about this? You can’t spend the rest of your life in pain.

Wait, go back, spend all of two minutes thinking through what you just said.

Do you believe, honestly that it was normal for the majority of human history and throughout the whole world for children to have their own bedrooms and beds? Do you really believe that?

And do you also believe that children living in actual jungles are not more resilient than you are?

I bet you'd lose your shit if someone said something about "boomers" or older generations being selfish and uncaring, but maybe the couple generations where we stuck kids alone in their room and told them to cry alone didn't actually help them.

I find your reply madness honestly, it’s just different ways of doing things. I’m all about creating secure attachment, I want to be that ever present source of comfort and calm until they are ready to progress to the next step like sleeping alone when they feel ready- not force it for my convenience.

It’s not about not wanting to upset them, impossible task, it’s about not wanting to be removed from them when they want us. They don’t need to be in their own beds, you as the adult would like them to be in their own beds because it’s the done thing not for their benefit.

When it comes to this topic I think of my best friend growing up, she was so comfortable with her mum (Aunty P) that whenever she felt upset or poorly or just in need of some extra love she’d hop in her bed to sleep. It happened at 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 and beyond because her mum was a lovely person who would make her feel better and they had/have the best relationship.

I wouldn’t dream of getting in bed with my mother at any stage, she was cold and nasty she’d probably even say no- we are NC now. As a mother I’d much rather be like my Aunty P than my own.

Maybe you have gone way too far the other way? Which can be just as damaging.

This.

People spouting on about resilience like we haven’t got generations of trauma and mental illness to work through due to not previously understanding that feelings of security and safety are optimal for children. Resilience is built through trust, not neglect.

We have a superking. Usually DH and teo kids sleep in it. I go to bed latr and sleep in my sons double. Except these last two nights where we pulled matresses into the main bedrokm where there is aircon and all camped out.

If I expected them to sleep with us, didn’t give them bedrooms and coddled them maybe but we don’t, we’re just always there for them, to comfort them and talk to them when they want us.

They are independent, confident and secure kids so no worries there but can we talk about your last sentence for a sec, I don’t think being too supportive or available is comparable to neglect or abuse. It’s not ‘just as damaging’ to indulge your kids (especially emotionally) as it is to abuse them.

And how are you so sure this current style of micromanagement and helicopter parenting coupled with mollycoddling and ensuring your child is never challenged will not lead to 'generations of trauma and mental illness'?
Spoiler: You don't.
As I've said before, I am well aware that today's parents are absolutely convinced the way they are raising their children is the definitively correct way and they will be rewarded with children who have no issues, but how do you know that?

I think it’s a case you’ve made your bed so ….! 😂