Page 17 | AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 2025-06-30T11:46:31+00:00

I think I'm fairly sure on this but can't stop panicking so I thought I'd ask on here. Friday night I had a car accident. It was a real shock and it's only now that I've stopped to think about it that I'm feeling really really cross. In the diagram I'm the blue line, the other driver is the green line. The thick lines show where we went, the thin lines indicate where you would have expected us to be going. Given that the lady tried to tell me she'd been going straight on when obviously she didn't makes me wonder if she had a mad moment! Anyway, this particular roundabout leads onto a bridge over a dual carriageway. On the other side of this bridge you can go left onto a local road, or right to join the dual carriageway. When we joined the roundabout, the other car was to my left. Neither of us indicated before joining the roundabout, however I did indicate left after I passed the 1st left exit as I was planning to go over the bridge and turn right to join the duel carriageway. As I was about to leave the roundabout the lady turned in front of me to head back round the roundabout and I hit her in the side of the car. Slow speed, maybe 15 mph. It turns out that we have the same insurance company just to complicate matters. I'm pretty sure that she is liable for this accident, what do you all think? YABU: you are liable YANBU: you are not liable

ReadingSoManyThreads · 30/06/2025 23:54

She was in the wrong lane and not indicating correctly. However, you are supposed to check that you are clear to exit, and you are supposed to avoid a collision, which you did not as she was in the way, so this will most likely be a 50/50 fault I'm afraid.

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:01

FloofyBird · 30/06/2025 23:44

Agreed, it should be clearer!

I've found the below advice too (hopefully doesn't take long to show) which indicates you can do this if it's dual carriageway to dual carriageway. But I don't think op was on a dual carriageway so I don't think it applies to her situation.

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I can only hope that where it's not a dual carriage way from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock and there are two or more lanes on the roundabout that the lanes would be marked on approach. I live in a huge city and encounter roundabouts all the time...I've just googled several I use regularly, so as to remind myself of the layout, and so far all the ones which go from one lane on the entrance to two on the exit, and similarly two on approach to one on the exit are all marked with arrows.

The one that worries me most, however, is the one in the picture below...it has left turn and then two other lanes marked straight over, except on the exit there is only one lane. I do not know how there have not been more accidents here (God knows there have been plenty). It's a terrible roundabout at the best of times (I once lost a wing mirror crossing it from another direction, when the car to the right of me in the right-turn-only lane decided to exit with me as I went straight across), and if I approach the roundabout as pictured, but wish to take the first exit, I pretty much always use the right-hand lane and go all around the roundabout in the iright hand lane, then exit it in the right hand lane, as that's the lane I have to be in to take my route home.

When my car next goes in for an MOT, I may just ask the garage to remove the drivers seat and fit a commode instead.

Edited to add: picture didn't bloody load!

Original poster

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:02

sandyhappypeople · 30/06/2025 23:46

So you think:

Right hand entrance lane, to right hand lane on island, to right lane on straight ahead dual carriageway.. isn't appropriate?

Just because there is a lack of signs, doesn't mean logic goes out of the window, it is exactly as any other dual carriageway island functions.

Left hand lane approach, to left hand lane on island, to suddenly trying to turn right in front of traffic to your right hand is absolutely not appropriate, not to mention completely at odds with the highway code, and OP would be robbed if they go 50/50.

Insurance companies are notoriously shit though.

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Thank you. 💐

OP posts:

Original poster

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:04

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:01

I can only hope that where it's not a dual carriage way from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock and there are two or more lanes on the roundabout that the lanes would be marked on approach. I live in a huge city and encounter roundabouts all the time...I've just googled several I use regularly, so as to remind myself of the layout, and so far all the ones which go from one lane on the entrance to two on the exit, and similarly two on approach to one on the exit are all marked with arrows.

The one that worries me most, however, is the one in the picture below...it has left turn and then two other lanes marked straight over, except on the exit there is only one lane. I do not know how there have not been more accidents here (God knows there have been plenty). It's a terrible roundabout at the best of times (I once lost a wing mirror crossing it from another direction, when the car to the right of me in the right-turn-only lane decided to exit with me as I went straight across), and if I approach the roundabout as pictured, but wish to take the first exit, I pretty much always use the right-hand lane and go all around the roundabout in the iright hand lane, then exit it in the right hand lane, as that's the lane I have to be in to take my route home.

When my car next goes in for an MOT, I may just ask the garage to remove the drivers seat and fit a commode instead.

Edited to add: picture didn't bloody load!

Edited

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🤣 Yes, just what I need!!!

OP posts:

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:06

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:01

I can only hope that where it's not a dual carriage way from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock and there are two or more lanes on the roundabout that the lanes would be marked on approach. I live in a huge city and encounter roundabouts all the time...I've just googled several I use regularly, so as to remind myself of the layout, and so far all the ones which go from one lane on the entrance to two on the exit, and similarly two on approach to one on the exit are all marked with arrows.

The one that worries me most, however, is the one in the picture below...it has left turn and then two other lanes marked straight over, except on the exit there is only one lane. I do not know how there have not been more accidents here (God knows there have been plenty). It's a terrible roundabout at the best of times (I once lost a wing mirror crossing it from another direction, when the car to the right of me in the right-turn-only lane decided to exit with me as I went straight across), and if I approach the roundabout as pictured, but wish to take the first exit, I pretty much always use the right-hand lane and go all around the roundabout in the iright hand lane, then exit it in the right hand lane, as that's the lane I have to be in to take my route home.

When my car next goes in for an MOT, I may just ask the garage to remove the drivers seat and fit a commode instead.

Edited to add: picture didn't bloody load!

Edited

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The picture.

AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)

Original poster

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:07

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:06

The picture.

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Now that looks like a complete nightmare if there's only one lane on exit!

OP posts:

Original poster

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:08

I have a dash cam on route

OP posts:

Original poster

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:08

I have a dash cam on route

Do not ever want to be caught out like this again!

OP posts:

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:22

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:07

Now that looks like a complete nightmare if there's only one lane on exit!

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It is pandem-effing-monium. Looking at this picture as it is, when it's busy, the traffic arriving from two lanes on the dual carriageway on the right is often restricted by the traffic to their right (there is one lane on their right which spreads to three on the exit, each marked left, straight, and right accordingly). That traffic then sits in the middle of the roundabout, as the exit the right-turn traffic is taking (bearing in mind as per the picture we've all seen now on here from the highway code) can exit into either of the two lanes, has a traffic-light controlled pedestrian crossing, which restricts movement of traffic.

Even without anyone using the crossing, there is another set of traffic lights ahead which react very quickly, to control traffic in & out the major supermarkert, and that causes traffic to back up. The roundabout is marked "KEEP CLEAR", at the entrance from the approach in my picture, but if you didn't know that as you came around the roundabout, then you could well be sitting in it by the time you saw it.

If there is just a hint of a gap where it says KEEP CLEAR, then the straight-on and right turners using the lanes in the picture will often put their foot to the floor and it's every man for himself, during which time the left-turners think they'll have a crack at squeezing through to their exit too.

I have lost count of the times I have sat at the end of the right-turn lane in the picture, indicating to turn right but can't because there's stationary traffic on my right and not enough room to barge through, and had other drivers screaming around me to do a right turn in the straight-on-only lane. To be honest, I avoid this roundabout on all approaches between the hours of 7:30am and 8pm, and take a detour...anyway I actually quite like driving past the flat my grandmother lived in until her death in 1995...I look across and think of how many times as a child I stood in front of that kitchen window baking cakes 😁

Original poster

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:30

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:22

It is pandem-effing-monium. Looking at this picture as it is, when it's busy, the traffic arriving from two lanes on the dual carriageway on the right is often restricted by the traffic to their right (there is one lane on their right which spreads to three on the exit, each marked left, straight, and right accordingly). That traffic then sits in the middle of the roundabout, as the exit the right-turn traffic is taking (bearing in mind as per the picture we've all seen now on here from the highway code) can exit into either of the two lanes, has a traffic-light controlled pedestrian crossing, which restricts movement of traffic.

Even without anyone using the crossing, there is another set of traffic lights ahead which react very quickly, to control traffic in & out the major supermarkert, and that causes traffic to back up. The roundabout is marked "KEEP CLEAR", at the entrance from the approach in my picture, but if you didn't know that as you came around the roundabout, then you could well be sitting in it by the time you saw it.

If there is just a hint of a gap where it says KEEP CLEAR, then the straight-on and right turners using the lanes in the picture will often put their foot to the floor and it's every man for himself, during which time the left-turners think they'll have a crack at squeezing through to their exit too.

I have lost count of the times I have sat at the end of the right-turn lane in the picture, indicating to turn right but can't because there's stationary traffic on my right and not enough room to barge through, and had other drivers screaming around me to do a right turn in the straight-on-only lane. To be honest, I avoid this roundabout on all approaches between the hours of 7:30am and 8pm, and take a detour...anyway I actually quite like driving past the flat my grandmother lived in until her death in 1995...I look across and think of how many times as a child I stood in front of that kitchen window baking cakes 😁

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Wow.
I couldn't deal with that now.
I've tried to plan a detour to avoid that roundabout but it adds a lot of time.
Just can't bring myself to drive across it again.

OP posts:

gottabereallyhonest · 01/07/2025 00:35

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:30

Wow.
I couldn't deal with that now.
I've tried to plan a detour to avoid that roundabout but it adds a lot of time.
Just can't bring myself to drive across it again.

Show quote history

I know the feeling. After someone went into me at another roundabout, in 2021 (that was the one I was saying was like your incident, where my insurance went 50/50) I avoided said roundabout for a very long time. It made it quite difficult at times, having to detour, but I couldn't face it. There are some roundabouts I won't use at all, or will only use if taking certain exits, due to other people's poor lane discipline.

pottytrainingdd · 01/07/2025 07:01

I think insurance will try and settle it as 50:50 tbh but absolutely do not take this, you can push for it to be escalated to a different claims handler.

One of the accidents I’ve been in, MY insurance initially told me I was lucky the other side had offered 50:50(!!!!!) when he’d gone into me. It was at a sort of crossroads but a very wide bit in the middle where you have to sort of bear left if you’re going straight across (which is what I was doing), and he was perpendicular to me doing the other crossroad route and hit me from the left at the side of my headlights and pushed my bonnet out of line. Because of how wide the road was, he could’ve only hit me in that position because I was more than half way across the wide bit (when I set off he wasn’t at his give way lines, not even close, so I’d set off and he just didn’t stop at his give way bit, went straight into me, carried on down the road for a bit and stopped quite a distance away, probably due to the speed he was going).

I didn’t have a dashcam in this instance and I remember submitting lots of marked up diagrams and I really did push for it to be escalated as I KNEW I wasn’t at fault, and once it had been reviewed -properly- by the insurance they agreed it was 100% other side’s fault. His insurance claimed I’d hit him (impossible due to damage) and they wouldn’t concede, and we had to go to court. Very stressful but actually quite fun in hindsight; he was very combative and kept changing his statement and at one point actually said that he HAD seen me set off, when his statement said that he hadn’t seen me and I’d come out of nowhere and hit him. Judge found me 100% not liable and summarised that the other party failed to stop correctly at the give way point.

If it does get to court stage, all you have to do is tell them exactly what happened, which from your perspective won’t deviate from your original reporting of the accident to your insurers, vs whatever reason Green will rationalise as being the one to justify her having a pootle across to the hatches.

Very quickly to add (as that one was much longer than I anticipated, sorry!), I was also hit when a driver performed an unsafe manoeuvre because they were in the wrong lane after the above one, and luckily I had a dashcam after the above (which I can see you’ve got one on order! Fabulous). In this one, we were coming off a motorway where there are 2 left only lanes, 3 straight on only lanes, and 2 right only lanes. I was the second car in the right hand side ‘left only’ lane and the other driver was the first in the first ‘straight on only’ lane. My dashcam shows them setting off at speed and then braking in the yellow box, and I had set off as they did a very sharp (and illegal) left turn straight into my back passenger door (ie I was well established in my correct lane) and all along the side of our car before coming to a stop ahead of us having mounted the central reservation. She was very aggressive and was shouting at me to take a couple of grand in cash right now (our door and back tyre were written off along with other damage along the car, think it cost about £12k to repair). Anyway we had to ring the police because she was going OFF at me for not accepting the money, and then she just buggered off before the police got there. Turns out she was uninsured. Prepared lots of diagrams and submitted the dashcam (appreciate not available here) but this was found 100% non fault too.

With you reporting to the police, you might get a pack through the post to fill out so be very thorough, don’t be afraid to use the extra notes pages, and definitely include your diagrams. This will be separate to your insurance claim whereas mine was used with it being an uninsured driver, however if you get a crime reference number pass it to your insurers.

Sorry this is so long! Good luck!!

Original poster

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 08:02

pottytrainingdd · 01/07/2025 07:01

I think insurance will try and settle it as 50:50 tbh but absolutely do not take this, you can push for it to be escalated to a different claims handler.

One of the accidents I’ve been in, MY insurance initially told me I was lucky the other side had offered 50:50(!!!!!) when he’d gone into me. It was at a sort of crossroads but a very wide bit in the middle where you have to sort of bear left if you’re going straight across (which is what I was doing), and he was perpendicular to me doing the other crossroad route and hit me from the left at the side of my headlights and pushed my bonnet out of line. Because of how wide the road was, he could’ve only hit me in that position because I was more than half way across the wide bit (when I set off he wasn’t at his give way lines, not even close, so I’d set off and he just didn’t stop at his give way bit, went straight into me, carried on down the road for a bit and stopped quite a distance away, probably due to the speed he was going).

I didn’t have a dashcam in this instance and I remember submitting lots of marked up diagrams and I really did push for it to be escalated as I KNEW I wasn’t at fault, and once it had been reviewed -properly- by the insurance they agreed it was 100% other side’s fault. His insurance claimed I’d hit him (impossible due to damage) and they wouldn’t concede, and we had to go to court. Very stressful but actually quite fun in hindsight; he was very combative and kept changing his statement and at one point actually said that he HAD seen me set off, when his statement said that he hadn’t seen me and I’d come out of nowhere and hit him. Judge found me 100% not liable and summarised that the other party failed to stop correctly at the give way point.

If it does get to court stage, all you have to do is tell them exactly what happened, which from your perspective won’t deviate from your original reporting of the accident to your insurers, vs whatever reason Green will rationalise as being the one to justify her having a pootle across to the hatches.

Very quickly to add (as that one was much longer than I anticipated, sorry!), I was also hit when a driver performed an unsafe manoeuvre because they were in the wrong lane after the above one, and luckily I had a dashcam after the above (which I can see you’ve got one on order! Fabulous). In this one, we were coming off a motorway where there are 2 left only lanes, 3 straight on only lanes, and 2 right only lanes. I was the second car in the right hand side ‘left only’ lane and the other driver was the first in the first ‘straight on only’ lane. My dashcam shows them setting off at speed and then braking in the yellow box, and I had set off as they did a very sharp (and illegal) left turn straight into my back passenger door (ie I was well established in my correct lane) and all along the side of our car before coming to a stop ahead of us having mounted the central reservation. She was very aggressive and was shouting at me to take a couple of grand in cash right now (our door and back tyre were written off along with other damage along the car, think it cost about £12k to repair). Anyway we had to ring the police because she was going OFF at me for not accepting the money, and then she just buggered off before the police got there. Turns out she was uninsured. Prepared lots of diagrams and submitted the dashcam (appreciate not available here) but this was found 100% non fault too.

With you reporting to the police, you might get a pack through the post to fill out so be very thorough, don’t be afraid to use the extra notes pages, and definitely include your diagrams. This will be separate to your insurance claim whereas mine was used with it being an uninsured driver, however if you get a crime reference number pass it to your insurers.

Sorry this is so long! Good luck!!

Thank you so much for this, much appreciated! 💐

OP posts:

Icedlatteplease · 01/07/2025 08:03

pottytrainingdd · 01/07/2025 07:01

I think insurance will try and settle it as 50:50 tbh but absolutely do not take this, you can push for it to be escalated to a different claims handler.

One of the accidents I’ve been in, MY insurance initially told me I was lucky the other side had offered 50:50(!!!!!) when he’d gone into me. It was at a sort of crossroads but a very wide bit in the middle where you have to sort of bear left if you’re going straight across (which is what I was doing), and he was perpendicular to me doing the other crossroad route and hit me from the left at the side of my headlights and pushed my bonnet out of line. Because of how wide the road was, he could’ve only hit me in that position because I was more than half way across the wide bit (when I set off he wasn’t at his give way lines, not even close, so I’d set off and he just didn’t stop at his give way bit, went straight into me, carried on down the road for a bit and stopped quite a distance away, probably due to the speed he was going).

I didn’t have a dashcam in this instance and I remember submitting lots of marked up diagrams and I really did push for it to be escalated as I KNEW I wasn’t at fault, and once it had been reviewed -properly- by the insurance they agreed it was 100% other side’s fault. His insurance claimed I’d hit him (impossible due to damage) and they wouldn’t concede, and we had to go to court. Very stressful but actually quite fun in hindsight; he was very combative and kept changing his statement and at one point actually said that he HAD seen me set off, when his statement said that he hadn’t seen me and I’d come out of nowhere and hit him. Judge found me 100% not liable and summarised that the other party failed to stop correctly at the give way point.

If it does get to court stage, all you have to do is tell them exactly what happened, which from your perspective won’t deviate from your original reporting of the accident to your insurers, vs whatever reason Green will rationalise as being the one to justify her having a pootle across to the hatches.

Very quickly to add (as that one was much longer than I anticipated, sorry!), I was also hit when a driver performed an unsafe manoeuvre because they were in the wrong lane after the above one, and luckily I had a dashcam after the above (which I can see you’ve got one on order! Fabulous). In this one, we were coming off a motorway where there are 2 left only lanes, 3 straight on only lanes, and 2 right only lanes. I was the second car in the right hand side ‘left only’ lane and the other driver was the first in the first ‘straight on only’ lane. My dashcam shows them setting off at speed and then braking in the yellow box, and I had set off as they did a very sharp (and illegal) left turn straight into my back passenger door (ie I was well established in my correct lane) and all along the side of our car before coming to a stop ahead of us having mounted the central reservation. She was very aggressive and was shouting at me to take a couple of grand in cash right now (our door and back tyre were written off along with other damage along the car, think it cost about £12k to repair). Anyway we had to ring the police because she was going OFF at me for not accepting the money, and then she just buggered off before the police got there. Turns out she was uninsured. Prepared lots of diagrams and submitted the dashcam (appreciate not available here) but this was found 100% non fault too.

With you reporting to the police, you might get a pack through the post to fill out so be very thorough, don’t be afraid to use the extra notes pages, and definitely include your diagrams. This will be separate to your insurance claim whereas mine was used with it being an uninsured driver, however if you get a crime reference number pass it to your insurers.

Sorry this is so long! Good luck!!

You won because the other party was a shit witness which made your version on balance the more likely. If the other witness was as credible as you it would have gone 50/50

KrisAkabusi · 01/07/2025 08:30

HurdyGurdy19 · 30/06/2025 23:17

The diagram is very similar to what happened to my son recently, only he was the green line, and the blue line went into the side of him

When he contacted his insurance company, the first thing they did was go onto Google maps to check the layout and the lane markings, which clearly showed that lane 1 was for left turn or straight ahead, and lane 2 was for straight ahead only. It also helped that he had dashcam footage that he could send to them to corroborate.

His whole claim was paid - courtesy car, new child car seat - and he didn't have to pay any of his excess. Presumably as it was so clear cut, the other driver's insurance didn't quibble.

OP was definitely not responsible for the accident in the diagram provided. IMO.

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But in the OP's case, she drove into the side of the other car. The insurance will see some liability there.

pottytrainingdd · 01/07/2025 08:51

Icedlatteplease · 01/07/2025 08:03

You won because the other party was a shit witness which made your version on balance the more likely. If the other witness was as credible as you it would have gone 50/50

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I think that’s what the other side were banking on tbh as their 50:50 never wavered, and I do agree I was more credible on the day, but my case was ultimately bolstered due to the evidence I’d submitted alongside it, eg in the judge’s summary comments he’d noted that the other side had not deiced his car and I had a photo showing just how obscured his vision would’ve been/referenced this in my statement, the debris from impact photo showed just how far over I was, the fact he’d hit the side of me vs if he’d set off first I would’ve hit the side of his etc - him being terrible was just the icing on the cake really. What I was trying to convey (not very concisely as my DD has decided she doesn’t want to sleep again 🤣) was having supporting evidence where possible in line with OP’s version of events will definitely help when challenging the claim review team (and potentially in court if it gets to that stage) if the initial stance is 50:50

grumpygrape · 01/07/2025 09:23

WiggyClawsThe2nd · 01/07/2025 00:08

Do not ever want to be caught out like this again!

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We have a front facing only Dash Cam but it proved we had slowed appropriately and were stationary when hit up the rear. Luckily no damage to either car or people and the other driver admitted she hadn’t managed to stop but it did prove in some small way the benefit of the Dash Cam.

Now considering a back and front one.

BIossomtoes · 01/07/2025 10:55

grumpygrape · 01/07/2025 09:23

We have a front facing only Dash Cam but it proved we had slowed appropriately and were stationary when hit up the rear. Luckily no damage to either car or people and the other driver admitted she hadn’t managed to stop but it did prove in some small way the benefit of the Dash Cam.

Now considering a back and front one.

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If someone rear ends you it’s always 100% their fault.

grumpygrape · 01/07/2025 11:43

BIossomtoes · 01/07/2025 10:55

If someone rear ends you it’s always 100% their fault.

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Not always, it's a well known crash for cash scam.

BIossomtoes · 01/07/2025 12:58

grumpygrape · 01/07/2025 11:43

Not always, it's a well known crash for cash scam.

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Then it’s still their fault. 🙄

Booboobagins · 01/07/2025 13:04

You were in a line that is marked to go straight ahead and that is what you did. She was in the wrong lane.

So sorry about your car. Hope you're not injured.

Insurer has to be impartial responsibility should be appropriately assigned.

silentlyleavetheirlife · 01/07/2025 13:05

She is in the wrong lane to go right!

silentlyleavetheirlife · 01/07/2025 13:07

KrisAkabusi · 01/07/2025 08:30

But in the OP's case, she drove into the side of the other car. The insurance will see some liability there.

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No liability if the other car came into your lane!

sandyhappypeople · 01/07/2025 13:14

BIossomtoes · 01/07/2025 12:58

Then it’s still their fault. 🙄

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Why are you eye rolling? The people perpetrating the scam aren't held at fault, that's the point of it!

They drive in front, do an emergency stop for no reason and YOU are held at fault for 'driving into the back of them', or in some cases they reverse into you and say you drove into them, that is the scam, the insurance companies are on to it now and rear end collisions are not just a case of if you drive into them then it's your fault, dash cams play a large part of them not getting away with it,, it's not a given anymore that the person behind is always at fault.

In a perfect world no one would be caught out by the scam, but they are quite good at it, and there are usually multiple people in the car ready to claim whiplash. Ideally, no one would ever bump into anyone else, but when the person, like in OPs case, does something completely unpredictable, accidents can easily happen.

bruffin · 01/07/2025 13:56

sandyhappypeople · 01/07/2025 13:14

Why are you eye rolling? The people perpetrating the scam aren't held at fault, that's the point of it!

They drive in front, do an emergency stop for no reason and YOU are held at fault for 'driving into the back of them', or in some cases they reverse into you and say you drove into them, that is the scam, the insurance companies are on to it now and rear end collisions are not just a case of if you drive into them then it's your fault, dash cams play a large part of them not getting away with it,, it's not a given anymore that the person behind is always at fault.

In a perfect world no one would be caught out by the scam, but they are quite good at it, and there are usually multiple people in the car ready to claim whiplash. Ideally, no one would ever bump into anyone else, but when the person, like in OPs case, does something completely unpredictable, accidents can easily happen.

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They wont do it if you have a dash cam.