AIBU to think I have no liability here? (diagram attached)

[WiggyClawsThe2nd]

I think I'm fairly sure on this but can't stop panicking so I thought I'd ask on here.
Friday night I had a car accident. It was a real shock and it's only now that I've stopped to think about it that I'm feeling really really cross.
In the diagram I'm the blue line, the other driver is the green line. The thick lines show where we went, the thin lines indicate where you would have expected us to be going. Given that the lady tried to tell me she'd been going straight on when obviously she didn't makes me wonder if she had a mad moment!
Anyway, this particular roundabout leads onto a bridge over a dual carriageway. On the other side of this bridge you can go left onto a local road, or right to join the dual carriageway.
When we joined the roundabout, the other car was to my left. Neither of us indicated before joining the roundabout, however I did indicate left after I passed the 1st left exit as I was planning to go over the bridge and turn right to join the duel carriageway. As I was about to leave the roundabout the lady turned in front of me to head back round the roundabout and I hit her in the side of the car. Slow speed, maybe 15 mph.
It turns out that we have the same insurance company just to complicate matters.
I'm pretty sure that she is liable for this accident, what do you all think?

YABU: you are liable
YANBU: you are not liable

Because it's mumsnet.

I have been in your situation, where the person who hit my car was in the wrong lane, albeit we had both left the roundabout by that point and she drifted from the left lane to the right, with the front drivers side of her car hitting the rear left passenger side of mine. As is often the case when people have accidents, the impact left her speech unimpaired, as she stood there at the side of the road telling me I shouldn't have been in the right hand lane of a 2-lane dual carriageway. She demanded I settle away from the insurance, which I would never do in any event.

I was 99% sure it would go 50/50, as I've known people who had roundabout collisions and that's the norm, and in the event it did go 50/50, not that I claimed for my car because I couldn't be bothered paying the excess to do so (the damage to my car was minimal, and 4 & half years later I'm still driving round with the mark on it.

You were not in the wrong lane, the fact that her lane went to hatches will hopefully go in your favour, but if it doesn't and goes 50/50 then that could only be because you had some responsibility to make sure no one was, in fact, still on your left in a hatched area they had no business being in in error.

Ignore the others - it's clear this isn't on you, even if half of it goes that way.

Good grief, there is no third exit! The other driver was driving in to a crosshatched area! Op was absolutely in the correct lane

So to use your logic then, and say that the right hand lan should not have been used to go straight over, at a roundabout like this where the only exits are at "6 o'clock", "9 o'clock", and "12 o'clock", the right hand lane should only be used by people who enter at 6 o'clock who then need to go back the way they came and leave at 6 o'clock, or else arrived at 9 o'clock and wanted to leave at 6 o'clock.

If that was the case, the right hand land would be marked as being only for such, and there would be no need for two exits at 12 o'clock, as the only people using the right hand lane on the exit would be people who arrived at 12 o'clock and wanted to go back the way they came.

It seems to be a very hard thing for a lot of mumsnetters to accept, but where no signs or arrows tell you differently, there is nothing to stop you using either left or right lane to go straight on at a roundabout. God knows where I live, there's a roundabout with two lanes and arrows telling you that you can go straight over, which causes untold mayhem at times as there's only one lane on the exit.

We are wasting our time.

Yes pretty much it! Only when the accident happened we were both in lines of traffic so she was following a car as was I.

OP, I feel your frustration with some posters.

Not sure why I've bothered to spend time typing this up but I'm in the coolest room in the house so here goes.

For those at the back who are struggling to keep up……

OP and the other driver both entered the first roundabout at 6 o’clock (no, not the time, the position on the diagram) OP wanted to exit the first roundabout at 12 o’clock and the second roundabout at 3 o’clock, so she quite rightly entered the first roundabout and continued in the right hand of the two lanes going round the roundabout so she could exit that roundabout and be in the right (and correct) lane to turn right at the second roundabout. The other driver entered and stayed in the left hand lane which is for vehicles exiting at 9 o’clock or at 12 o’clock and then continuing to exit the second roundabout at 9 o’clock. Instead of staying in the left hand lane she, without indication, turned right in front of the OP once she had exited the first roundabout.

She said she wanted to go straight on (12 o’clock exit) so should have stayed in the left hand lane. If she needed to exit the second roundabout at 3 o’clock she could have moved from the left hand lane to the right hand lane on the road/bridge between the two roundabouts, if traffic permitted, or, after exiting the first roundabout in the left hand lane entered the second roundabout, in the left hand lane but indicated right and carried on round to the 3 o’clock exit.

If she’d realised she should never have entered the first roundabout in the first place then she should still have carried on, straight, to the second roundabout and indicated right to go all the way round, back to the first roundabout, exited at 6 o’clock and gone back to where she should have been in the first place which was probably the driving test centre.

No you have this reversed.

If there are no markings you use the left hand lane to go straight ahead. Whether there is any another exits past straight ahead is irrelevant.

There may well be markings that alter the position to allow the right lane to go straight ahead but the OP has not confirmed that.

Again this is confirmed in the highway code

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html

Wow
So wonderfully put. I wish I could pin this to the top of the thread. And wish I'd had you in my pocket talking to insurance! Lady has same insurance company so am not letting this go!!!

No

If you enter at 6 o'clock and exit at 12 o'clock you should be in the left lane. Unless markings tell you otherwise

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html

Arghhh 😂😂

You may like this post...

Unfortunately it is wrong in accordance with the highway code. UNLESS there are road markings to the contrary

Surely the last exit is the straight on exit here? There isn't another after it..........

"If you are taking the first exit you should always be in the lane furthest to the left.

If you are taking the last exit, or if you need to go all the way around and double back on yourself, you should be in the lane furthest to the right. This always applies, even on roundabouts with only two lanes and multiple exists."
alfiesdrivingschool.com/approaching-a-roundabout/#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20taking%20the,two%20lanes%20and%20multiple%20exists.

So, if the roundabout only has three exits, 9 o'clock (left), 12 o'clock (straight on) and 6 o'clock (where you've just come from) what is the point of having two lanes exit at 12 o'clock ?

No you have this reversed.

No, I really don't. From point 186 in the link you provided:

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

• select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
• you should not normally need to signal on approach
• stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
• signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

There is no mentioning of having to only use the left lane, just the appropriate lane.

The OP wished to be in the right hand lane of the dual carriageway after leaving the roundabout, so she approached in the right hand lane, stuck to the right hand lane, to exit into the right hand lane. If that isn't appropriate for when you wish to be in the right hand lane when you exit a 2-lane roundabout at 12 o'clock & having joined at 6 o'clock, you'll have to provide me evidence before I can change my mind.

A minus - why would they spend money fighting it out between themselves over takes liability? It only impacts you and it costs them money - it’s in their interest to go 50-50 and saves them legal costs, they just pay out and both of you pay increased premiums. If it was different companies there would be incentive to argue it. Sorry - it’s crap for you.

Exactly - well done OP. Heavens, I hope you get the right result. 😊

That's exactly what I said. It's illogical if it's not to be used when going from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock.

No unfortunately alfies driving school is ONLY right if the first exit is before the straight ahead. If the first exit is straight ahead you should be in the left lane as per the highway code.

Both your insurance company and the courts follow the highway code, not alfies driving

I am not an insurance expert so I didn't comment on this part, but my gut instinct is that they would be even more likely to go 50/50, as either way it's going to cost them the same as it would 100% against one of the drivers. At least with 50/50 it's without argument, and potentially they get to benefit from two lots of excess being paid.

Nope I can assure you makes absolutely no difference. Your insurance company follows the Highway code then relevant case law.

Having worked at a few doing this job I can tell you it makes nit a blind bit of difference whether you are with the same company or different

Will update in next months when sorted!!!

But HWC refutes the 12 o'clock thingy. It's guidance, not law! Have double checked this

And the first exit was before the straight ahead

Really good to know, thank you

The lady is 100% in the wrong for suddenly deciding to go around the island instead of straight on in the left lane, BUT, OP is not in the clear here regarding liability, the right lane isn't a designated lane to go straight on, it's completely ambiguous if you look at the aerial view.

Look at the image I'm attaching, the left lane is ahead ONLY, (I've highlighted the relevant road markings in red) the right lane is ahead, and continue around, no nonsense, you can't just cross the lane dividers/move lanes willy nilly.

There are no such markings on OPs island, so the lady didn't cross a white line and neither did OP, it is very badly designed 'free for all' island. Common sense would dictate that the right lane (OPs lane) can exit the island at 12 o clock into the right hand dual carriageway, as most people probably do there, there's no point being in that lane otherwise. But there is NOTHING on the island or before the islands to dictate it, so in absence of instructions people are technically correct that you should stay left and may have to face some liability.

Other woman's fault though.