Why are toxic men great in bed?

[Sexlessandconfused]

Slightly tongue in cheek (I think?). As you can see from my last thread about my sexless relationship, me and my friends were discussing this which led to a general chat about sex drives/boyfriends.

We were talking about past boyfriends/sex etc, and we all realised that the more a toxic/avoidant man the better the sex.

All of our best ever lovers were the worst actual people. The men that really knew a woman's body and have passionate pleasurable sex were the worst type of long term boyfriends.

Also the nicest/sweetest of men were the worst in bed. Not in a selfish kind of way but in a can't last longer than 2 minutes, not great at foreplay and submissive rather than ever take the lead etc.

Has anyone else noticed this? Also there were 7 of us discussing this last night so not a tiny sample of 2/3 people. Could just be a coincidence all 7 of us have experienced the same but I think there could be something in this?

I really wonder why as you think it'd be the other way around 🤔

Is it because unavailable men seem more attractive (for some insane reason) and therefore seem better in bed?

Probably related to their testosterone levels. And the bad boys have no shortage of women willing to have sex with them and put up with their BS so they have no incentive to be better people.

Confidence

Well, I'd be looking at what your assumptions about 'toxic' men are -- I mean, I'd assume the answer lay in you collectively and your psychology around this ('Bad boys are hot?' etc etc) rather than anything inherent in unpleasant men being excellent lovers.

Bullshit.

DH is an awesome husband and also the only man to have ever made me see God. Because he's actually interested in my pleasure, loves it even, and not just in getting his end away.

I think the thrill of a deep-dicking from a misogynist with no real interest in whether you get off would have worn off rapidly over the years.

Also the nicest/sweetest of men were the worst in bed. Not in a selfish kind of way but in a can't last longer than 2 minutes, not great at foreplay and submissive rather than ever take the lead etc.

I really could not put up with this, no matter how nice the man!

Then you really have struck gold! Getting the best of both worlds.

This is the thing, these avoidant/toxic men seem to be bad as partners in every way other than the bedroom where they are selfless/passionate and know what they're doing.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to translate to outside of the bedroom.

Hmm by toxic it's not necessarily the whole 'bad boy' stereotype of a good looking man with sunglasses on a motorbike wearing a leather jacket that dabbles in dodgy activities.

More selfish, unthoughtful, blow hot and cold etc.

You'd think they'd also be that way in the bedroom, selfish and lazy. But actually they are banging in bed, selfless, focused on the woman's pleasure, can last, great foreplay etc.

However when it comes to everything else outside of sex they are the complete opposite.

But again, it could just be coincidental experiences we've all had. But interesting nonetheless.

I wonder if it's a mix of confidence, high testosterone and the men seeming so unavailable (want more what you can't have etc)

Ooh this is interesting, especially the high testosterone. Hadn't thought of that!

Ive had great sex with toxic and non toxic. Its a myth

Not my experience at all.....the toxic ones tend to be self absorbed, selfish in bed and have never stuck with the same woman long enough to actually learn how to properly pleasure a woman.

It's usually all about them and makes for shit sex.

It might be a bit of self-selection.

Toxic blokes who are crap in bed won't get a second chance but toxic blokes who make up for it by being great in the sack will be more likely to be judged as someone maybe worth seeing again.

Similarly nice blokes who are crap in bed might get a second chance by virtue of being non-toxic (and maybe the hope they'll get better with practise).

I had a couple of men for a brief while who fit your description. It was a power trip for them.

Well, the men that can get away with that type of behavior long-term are usually very pretty, so maybe it’s just starting early and getting a lot more practise in?!

It is also an observation my group of friends have shared…. One of nature’s mysteries!

Seems a mixed bag of responses! Maybe self selection as a PP said.

But I do think there is a bit of a theme.

I've heard of women in abusive relationships say that the sex was so amazing it'd reel them back in. I found that interesting but I'm guessing there's more to do with trauma bonds and wanting to feel loved/cared for again as opposed to the physical act being so amazing.

@tostaky yes definitely a life mystery!

Probably experience with many, many women

Is it bcos the chemistry is different & just much stronger with the bad boy to start with? So even to be in bed with them for a start (due to all the game playing) is a different kind of thrill - everything is heightened & more charged? But is it chemistry built on toxicity & dopamine & not the sustaining loving kind? Are alphas better in bed though?? What is attractive & sexually attractive is pretty complex tbh. I suppose confidence & experience counts for something but notches on the bedpost don’t equate to quality sex (as we well know!)

Simple biochemistry. You're desperate for their attention, so when they want a shag, you're already halfway there.

It’s funny how often this comes up with my friends, and I’ve noticed the same thing myself. There’s something about blokes who are a bit avoidant or even a bit toxic—they’re usually a nightmare for anything serious, but when it comes to sex, especially when it comes to cock and being genuinely good at giving oral, they just seem to know what they’re doing. Maybe it’s confidence, or maybe they’re just more up for trying things, but they’re definitely not shy about getting stuck in. I’ve had exes who were a disaster in every other way but would happily spend ages making sure I was enjoying myself, actually listening to what I liked, and making sure I finished—sometimes more than once. It’s like they know being good with their mouth is just as important as anything else, and they actually seem to take pride in it.

On the other hand, the genuinely nice lads, the ones who are thoughtful and caring, often seem a bit too careful, not really taking the lead, and sometimes just not that great with their cock or with oral. It’s not that they’re selfish, just that they don’t seem as confident, and it can end up feeling a bit underwhelming. I don’t know if it’s just our generation or if it’s always been like this, but it does make you wonder how much confidence and attitude play into sexual chemistry.

Ideally, you want someone who’s got the best of both.... caring, but also knows exactly what they’re doing in bed.

Love this - simply put - says it all!

Maybe it’s an extension of the control thing, in that they enjoy knowing they can blow your mind and have you coming back for more. Or just an ego boost to see you thoroughly spent. I agree with the comments about confidence too.

Don't underestimate your psychology in this! For some women, they find that excitement is what they like, but not all women do. Such men are a huge turn off to me. Also, we are constantly taught that our pleasure is secondary to a man's, so it's possible that some (not all!) Women are judging the encounter by the man's experience rather than their own...

In my experience the thoughtful lover is most satisfying physically, emotionally, and mentally.

Completely the opposite in my experience. I was trapped in an abusive relationship and he was awful in bed. Low sex drive, no imagination and really prudish.

By contrast, my DP is the sweetest, kindest, gentlest, calmest man on the planet but is a proper demon in the sack. Absolutely filthy 😁