Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

Not if there were other costs he incurs by working, i.e. commuting/travel costs, work clothes, etc.

Then he needs to take a job where those costs aren’t incurred. It’s just not acceptable to refuse to work because you’d “only” be 40% better off than on benefits.

I think people don't think about salaries as percentages but purchasing power.

And part of the issue is, that whilst benefits overall cost the country a lot, for a single adult they are pretty low, so small amounts extra are a big percent but a big percent still might not buy much.

So for this person their thinking goes 'does this £40 a week buy me enough to make working 40 hours work worth it'? (And its pretty difficult to find a job with zero costs)

I appreciate on a national level we need most people to decide that yes it is worth it. But as an individual its not hugely motivating. You are doing it for the greater good or longer term gain.

Yes, of course, everyone has easy availability of jobs on their doorstep don't they!!

The poster said £40 better off, now 40%!
Unfortunately, hard work is effectively punished, certainly disincentivised at the lower, middle and especially at the upper end of the pay spectrum by the crazy IK tax system, which needs to be changed.

That's before you start talking about the other disincentives to hard work, ie the fact that hard work and salary are far less relevant in terms of what you can afford in life now compared to how well off your parents/grandparents are and how much money you are given by them.

They've tried that ... they are leaving in their droves as a result, losing the UK billions in taxes and income to businesses.

Universal credit for a single person is just under £100 per week. £40 is 40% of it. I’d certainly think it was worthwhile to be £160 a month better off. Perhaps I have those famous MN low standards.

Depends what other benefits he gets, i.e. free prescriptions, housing allowance, council tax reductions, etc. There's a lot more to "make work pay" than just comparing one isolated benefit against wages.

I'm far from being a UC expert but I think that's only for a young person, under a certain age, living with their parents. You also need to take into account the expenses of getting to work and potential other benefits and expenses paid if not working. It ends up not being worth it or barely worth it financially and that's before you take everything else into account (stress, etc). There should be a significant motivator built into the tax system to encourage people to work hard and be independent.

Nope. £440.14pm for single adults over 25. That is £100pw.
Under 25s get £316.98pm.
Living with parents does not affect the standard amount.

Thanks @XenoBitch. As I said, I'm far from an expert. Do those paying rent not all get housing benefit though? I thought they did or how else can they possibly pay their accommodation costs.

@rainingsnoring you can't get housing benefit now until you're 35.

Even if you're over 35, it doesn't cover rent in the vast majority of areas, so that £100 a week has to cover the difference between actual rent and housing benefit too.

And yet people still insist that benefits are too generous.

So the rich are leaving the UK in droves so they can avoid tax, and that's just seen as fine and acceptable behaviour, but working class parents finding that working 40+ hours for marginally more than they receive in benefits is terrible and they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Why are only the working class expected to do the right thing?
If it's cool for the rich to be self serving, then it should be fine for the working class, too.

Who said "it's fine" for the rich to leave?? The real problem is you can't stop them. And increasing their taxes just pushes more away to the detriment of the UK.

It's better not to put policy in that drives people away.

I don't think that's true, is it? About the being over 35 thing? Single and under 35, from what I can gather, can get the LA for a single room in shared accommodation.

Which still won't cover the vast majority of rents, no matter how unfurnished, small, dirty, dingy and mouldy they are. Most private rent pcm is at least £100 more than LAs and more like £200 more pcm.

It's still generous to receive anything at all, it's just not the easy luxury lifestyle some people make it out to be.

No, the UK won't stop them. Exit tax, anyone?

The UK in recent history, has had the highest number of the wealthy coming here than pretty much any other country, certainly in Europe... yet what has that given us?

The super rich, can easily avoid taxes or most of them..

Are the well off leaving the UK because of tax rates or because the country just isn't "working" anymore?

Can a business thrive here when workers can't get decent healthcare? roads are falling apart and congested? where public transport is super expensive? where children receive poor education? & the general public have such poor overall health?

Even our supermarkets are substandard compared to what you get in Europe.

Recent Govt figures say 34k new PIP claimants per month!!!

We are certainly heading back to the Sick man of Europe aren't we?

They can also leave, who is stopping them?

@DonnyBurrito sorry I should have said "full housing benefit".

They key point is that the amount an under 35-year old gets is so far from the cost of any accomodation that it is fundamentally misleading to call it housing benefit.

The smallest property in my village was a two bedroom cottage for £950pcm. I would have been entitled to £100 PW housing benefit, which would barely have covered storage of my possessions if I had moved into a flatshare. But of course, flatshares don't exist in rural areas 70 miles away from the nearest city, and it's pretty disingenuous of the government to pretend otherwise. So to say people under 35 don't get any help with housing is fundamentally true.

The original poster said he would be £40 a week better off once his housing allowance and council tax liability were taken into account. It’s really little wonder that the welfare bill is so high when people are falling over themselves to make excuses for fit, healthy young people choosing not to work.

A bus to and from work for 5 days a week comes to £36 so he'd be left with just £4 if the job isn't close enough to walk!

Everyone is chomping at the bits at taxing the rich. What kind of country are we that we penalise success. Why work hard, build a business and build something if it's all gonna be taken away and given to people that don't work.

Inheritance tax is crap. You're taxed all your life and then taxed when you want to pass things over when you die. Oh let's tax assets, why invest in something and develop holdings if we'll just take it away.

I have private healthcare under DH's job. So does our whole family. Public transport is okay. My children went to a top state grammar as school and then all went to RG unis. My children have taken it upon themselves to have a healthy and active lifestyle.