Don’t want to talk to a man

[Flamingodaughter]

I F47 need to have a meeting regarding taking too much sick time off work. I’ve worked for the company for 10 years and I’ve never taken time off but I have had a run of bad luck the last few months and it has been unavoidable. The meeting is due today but I’ve just found out that my manager (female) is on holiday and the meeting will be conducted by a male manager who I know but not well. Trouble is, some of the things that have caused me issues are due to what my mum calls women problems lol. I don’t feel
very comfortable discussing my reasons for being off with this male manager. Is this unreasonable?

yes but they should be advised by occupational health and its occy health who should be seeing the medical reports etc. Its why I asked was the OP under any kind of medical care for her problems.

I wouldn’t like it but if anything he might be more sympathetic! Just stick to the facts. When he hears the condition he’ll probably want it over with soon as.

Clearly you’re a child! Sickness meetings are handled by line managers or their deputies! HR only get involved when sickness is leading to potential dismissal. I doubt this manager has never had to deal with sickness relating to female problems! Personally I’d be far more embarrassed having high levels of sickness due to the menopause! Sadly some women use it as an excuse to go off sick, which then tars everyone with the same brush!

I think maybe it's a bit dangerous to assume a woman will be more sympathetic. It's stereotyping and far from guaranteed. These days I would expect a man or a woman to be exactly the same when discussing confidential and sensitive matters.

What is weird to me is bussing in an external person, it's your line manger who should be the one leading this.

OH do t get sent medical reports! They only see them if the person brings them
in for them to see! The best OH tend to offer for menopausal symptoms are micro breaks and extra toilet breaks!

Very true, it's my experience of managers that male managers are generally far more sympathetic and understanding, especially on subjects they don't want to get too involved with!

What age are you? I would be totally blunt and tell it as it is. We have come a long way in the last 30 years and we need to make even more progress.

It's too late to reply to the OPs specific situation now given her meeting was a couple of days ago.

However, I do think it is worth reiterating that an absence meeting with a manager does not require any employee to divulge medical information. In fact you do not have to divulge ANY medical information AT ALL to ANYONE. The key points are:

1. A management meeting is primarily to gather facts. The initial meeting will be to establish if the absences are related, if there is a reasonable expectation of further absences, and if further support is necessary to support attendance. The exact nature of issues is not relevant. So for example: there have been 7 absences, 4 were related to medical condition A, which is diagnosed and undergoing treatment; 2 were for a second, maybe unrelated medical condition, not yet diagnosed and under investigation and 1 was for a self contained, fully resolved minor illness.
2. If the medical situation appears to be ongoing and there is reason to expect further absences or it becomes clear that adjustments and accommodations can be provided to support employee attendance then OH referral will be necessary to explore and inform this. The employee retains the right to refuse to attend or consent to meet with OH. The offer of OH support must be documented along with the refusal and the employee should be informed that HR decisions will be made without being informed by the OH guidance and this may be unfavourable to the employee.
3. The employee must complete consent forms to show what information they are happy and not happy sharing. The employee has the right to decide exactly what and how much they share with the employer. They do not have to consent to anything but the decision to not consent will be documented.
4. The choice to refuse to share any information can be destructive. It is usually in everyone's best interest to engage in the process, but the right information should be given to the right people and medical information should only be discussed with medical people. It is rarely in the best interest of the employee to share their medical information with managers or HR - Occupational Health and medical professionals are there to act in the best interest of your health. However, they will only answer the questions asked of them by HR. The employee has the right to request their own OH referral and include their own questions.

My advice, and in particular for menopause related issues, is to see if there are any menopause policies in the workplace and if the issues are severe enough to cause disruption to work output, request OH referral and use this to explore the relevant policies and seek accommodations and adjustments in order to gain protection under employment law. If the policies are not supportive, ACAS and Union engagement can be used to challenge the policy.

It is often said that HR is only interested in protecting the business, but remember that employee are a significant asset of that business too and poor management of the employee asset is not good business. A good HR department will seek to recognise and protect the investment the business has made in the employee.

The majority of comments seem to be "grow up, it's not awkward, be factual about your private medical conditions and it will be fine BECAUSE he'll be so mortified?" 🤔

So it's not embarrassing because it is embarrassing?

Fucking Ridiculous.

OP, just say you would prefer to speak to your usual manager or a female manager. While there is zero to be embarrassed about you should have the right to privacy.

I do think you’re being a bit childish here OP. What would happen if none of the managers were female?

He’s in a management position and has probably heard similar before from people in his own life or his own team through work. Realistically it’s a tick box exercise so as others have said you don’t need to go massively into specifics.

And NO, he won't be more sympathetic due to being male. Ffs. Until very recently the majority of HCP and the medical profession was male. Women's health and pain has been routinely dismissed and ignored much to women's detriment.

Half the stories about maternity wards focus on bad male behavior to women. Why are some women so sexist about their sex?

Yes, sadly women aren't automatically more sympathetic.

Ask if you can speak to someone female. I would be comfortable saying "I've been diagnosed with cervical cancer and will be off _ dates for treatment" to a man, but if you need to go into detail like for example "I have a prolapsed womb that's causing pain when I lift things" or "I have a condition which is causing extreme bleeding and sweating" I can completely see why you want a female and you should request one.

Definitely wouldn't feel comfortable talking to a male manager for everything.

You're totally within your rights to request a female member of staff although tbh I work in HR and in my experience most male managers try to end the conversation as quickly as possible as soon as you mention any medical conditions related solely to the female sex so might work in your favour hon.

OP I think I'd have the same misgivings in your situation, and anyway it seems shitty that they're making you explain yourself like this if you have a run of bad luck health-wise after 10 years working for them.

But hey, the man's a manager so this situation is in a day's work for him. I'd just be factual about it, and we here on mn can cross our fingers that he blanches and waves your absences through with a shudder 🙃

I remember years ago having some kind of stomach complaint for a couple of days (think it was something I ate) and having a 'return to work' interview when I got back in. It wasn't my regular female manager, it was a bloke subbing for her. He asked for my symptoms and when I innocently mentioned the word 'cramps', he got all flustered and couldn't sign the form quickly enough. And that didn't even have anything to do with 'women's problems' but he was just thrown by one word. But if you feel genuinely uncomfortable, and I think I would, you need to ask to speak to a female staff member in HR.

Whilst I understand you’re uncomfortable I’d try not to worry too much and just bite the bullet. As PP have said - some people are arseholes, M or F. I manage a young lady (20) and she’s had awful issues with her periods. I understand - I’ve sent her home in taxis as she looked white as a sheet and I didn’t want her collapsing on the bus. My manager male fifties asked about it and I told him. He was absolutely fine and no issues, but I know she would not have wanted to say that to him. I did ask her beforehand if I could tell him and she agreed.

I don’t get embarrassed about stuff like that though so I didn’t find it difficult but I think I would have felt the same as her when I was her age.

look if youve been to the GP - youve been diagnosed with something - so youve got a medical term to describe your condition. stick to that, and forget the mysogynistic crap that tells you female GPs and Line managers etc etc are soft and caring and understanding and male GPs and LMs are brutal and dismissive and wish you ill.

From my experience women can be more judgy, critical and unsympathetic (clearly you haven't spent a great deal of time on MN) and it might actually be advantageous to have a male manager.

Keeping it clinical and using the correct medical terminology might help. Tbf I wouldn't be thrilled with it either but it is what it is and hopefully he will realise its an uncomfortable topic for you. It's a real shame though that "women's troubles" still have such a stigma attached, they're still a medical condition that in theory could affect half the population.

Ugh. Back in 2004ish, a very young me was diagnosed with PCOS, and ended up with a disciplinary over the amount of sick days I'd taken. (I worked in retail, who are unforgiving.) All my managers were male, so I had to explain my reasons - when notes were being taken too. To get maximum understanding, I went into tons of detail. Squrmingly unconformable meeting for a girl in her early 20s, but probably worse for them, and in hindsight there's a lot I would've done differently.
20 years later, I've grown up, and have recently encountered a new male manager and a new raft of health problems. Of course. However, now, I really don't care and am completely open. (I had to stop going into detail about my colonoscopy!) Luckily he's been amazing.
I appreciate you don't know this person well, so as others have said, either see if you can postpone it (good for a continuity factor too) or if not, just stick to discussing what you're comfortable with. Could you ask if you could gave someone with you for moral support?

Why don’t you just say that you are experiencing a number of health issues relating to peri- menopause. You are current receiving treatment to alleviate these problems with a doctor and the nature of the symptoms mean that you can be affected in different ways at different times of month?

that pretty much covers it and there’s no need to add detail.
just say you will provide more details from doctor if necessary

Fair enough if you're uncomfortable, you could ask to speak to someone else. But guaranteed a man will be much easier on you for women's issues! Bet the conversation won't last longer than a couple of minutes, unless you've been massively taking the piss.

Don’t you have a letter from your doctor? Hospital? Or even a fit/sick note referencing your medical issues you can hand over for them to read? Then it’s a case of asking for what reasonable adjustments you need to be able to continue working.
Also, if this is not a return to work meeting but something separate, then a. Make sure you are extremely familiar with your absence policies and b. Take a trusted colleague in with you, preferably someone reasonably senior who can advocate for you when needed and cut through any bullshit tactics.

How do you know it's the menopause?