Cleaner who works 6 hours per week preferring cash in hand weekly - holiday pay? Is this a thing?

[Catwhispereroo]

Hi, we have a cleaning lady who is generally lovely. She comes for 6 hours per week, £20 per hour, so £120 per week. She always prefers cash in hand weekly.

Today she asked if we will pay her 4 weeks holiday pay as, according to her, 'everyone else does.'

I had a think about it, but have had to tell her this is not possible. I feel bad though. AIBU?

My reasoning is -

1. A cleaner is already quite a luxury, as I'm no longer working.

2. We have had lots of cleaners over the years and all preferred cash and none ever asked for holiday pay for cash in hand work.

3. I don't want the hassle of a contract setting out holiday pay or sickness pay (will that be next)? We are a just a private household, not a company.

4. I will give her a few weeks pay as a Xmas bonus anyway.

5. She seems to go abroad for a month each year. If we gave her 4 weeks pay, that would be almost £500. Then, if I got a replacement cleaner in for those weeks, that would be another £500!

6. When we go away I'm happy for her to come as usual (even though we don't really need this) so that she doesn't lose out financially. But I can't pay 4 weeks holiday as week.

Again, AIBU? Thanks!

Wow. You have just publicly admitted to being an accessory to fraud. I hope you're not involved in any other crimes as you'd be rubbish in a police interview!

Do you know that at £15 per hour you're on less than minimum wage, by the time holiday pay and other employee benefits are factored in? And that's without all your costs and travel time.

Yeah we know, but sometimes we are only there about 45 mins so it evens out, we are really busy, some of our clients are elderly and really don't need much doing, doesn't feel right charging more. We do ok and work 7 days a week.

I pay my cleaner when we’re away - that is effectively their holiday pay

if you’re in london and you like your cleaner be very careful about not covering this request - they are very hard to come by now

You mustn't fall into the trap of the elderly & what doesn't seem fair...I know it makes me sound utterly heartless and I'm as genuine as they come, but so many people I work for have so much money and so little time left to spend it. I only charge per-job rather than per-hour, but the least I charge now is £40 for any of it...I'd rather do more when I was there and go less often & for longer than I would turn up and charge just for the hour I was on site. Because as you say, we are very busy with work.

I've got to let some of my clients go, which I am not looking forward to, as come September I won't be able to work even half of the hours I do now...It's so hard, I've had some for over twenty years.

Thanks yeah I do understand that, we do other jobs that are charged per job but we have been told we are undercharging! Perhaps that's why we are so busy?! 😂 X

I dunno...I never think of price as being a factor in this game, that is until someone contacts me and the first thing they want to know is how much do I charge.

If they said "I've never had a cleaner before and I've no idea what to expect to pay - can you help me?", well, that's different. "How much do you charge" equates to "I don't want to pay any more than I think I should", which makes me think "You can't afford me and even if you hire me you'd make me earn every penny, and more".

I like people who ask me if I have vacancies. That's always a good place to begin. One lady even went so far as to point out that she was a friend of Mrs So & So, who'd not long died...and she happened to wonder if I might just have a slot going begging. I liked her style, really I did. 😆

I'm a cleaner and charge £15-£17.50 ph but I'm a mug. I supply all eco products, always work over my time as chatting is free and can't put up my prices as my elderly clients claim they're poor pensioners. I'd love the Xmas bonus you pay but I'm lucky if I get a candle. I'm adhd, am a perfectionist so work extremely hard but never seem to be appreciated. This woman sounds like she's a chancer and it's obviously paid off for her before. As she's cash in hand then she doesn't have a leg to stand on as I bet it's not declared.

I have found that the less you charge for anything, the less appreciated you are. I am very lucky in that I think only once have I even been given a sob-story when it came to prices.

I did once have someone (a young lady) say "That's expensive!" when I gave her a quotation (and it wasn't expensive at all, it was exceptionally good value based on all her factors and that parking was going to be a likely issue). But she accepted it, and like an idiot (and despite my gut instinct & vast experience telling me to back away) I still went and did one clean for her...it was meant to be an ongoing fortnightly job, but she was a nightmare.

As I pointed out to her, from the moment she said "That's expensive!" I felt an overwhelming urge to get the f*k out and never come back ensure I provided her with excellent value, and had tried very hard to make a good start on her exceptionally filthy apartment refreshingly challenging home, but understood that it may not have pleased the ungrateful cow ticked all her boxes the first time round, and that I'd happily refund her fee as a matter of goodwill, because under no circumstances was I going back after all the f*king noise she made the obvious difficulties I was going to have when parking the car.

I bend over backwards for most customers, and if I've got it, they can have it. Except for my sanity. I'm not giving that up at any price.

No. If she wants holiday pay she needs to join a cleaning agency. Bit bloody cheeky.

Also - the fact she isn’t taxed on her cash, that’s her holiday pay!

This 👆

No way that’s weird !

She won't get holiday pay from an agency. They don't employ their "staff". That's not how agencies work. They exist to take people who are utterly desperate for a cleaner and can't find one, and match them with a someone who wants to clean but who inexplicably is incapable of sadly unable to find, manage, and retain their own clients.

The agency charges a straight-up fully legal fee every month, paid from the client to the agency by standing order (or whatever method). The cleaner - who is supposed to be registered with HMRC as self-employed - is then paid something barely like minimum wage on the day of the clean, and that's minimum wage without the estimated 30%+ they get per hour as an employee, when holidays and other benefits are factored in.

I thought that if she has five clients @£500 each per week. That's £10k a year holiday pay. Awesome cheek

Yes this is mad OP, you're paying her £120 a week, are you giving her £500+ at Christmas?

Same, we pay £15 in north London. There are so so many cleaners looking for work around here. You could pay a lot less, but I wouldn't pay less than £15, doesn't seem right.

Oh for goodness sake. I very much doubt the police are going to show up on my doorstep, not least because friend in question probably didn’t even earn enough to pay tax anyway and also she has passed away. If they want to arrest me for helping out a friend who was working hard for little money then happy days, come and arrest me. Small business owners fiddle their taxes every day.

Anyone who pays any small business owner in cash is complicit in tax evasion. Only one reason small business owners ask for cash. My friend actually didn’t ask me to do that, but I offered. And yes I do pay tax, lots of it, but then i’m not a small business owner. If I was, i’d have definitely had yes if a friend asked if they wanted me to pay in cash.

She thinks you are a soft touch or she doesn't know how being self-employed works.

So presumably if you're paying holiday pay/sickness... You're employing them rather than contracting them?

I bank transfer my dad's cleaner 20 ph - she's self employed. Equally she has her own insurance for her business.

No - and this is where there is misinformation being spread above.

I simply pay an agreed monthly amount equivalent to 52 weeks x 5 hours x hourly rate / 12.

I then allow them to take time off from that / flex the hours / occasionally be ill / ie be humans! I value them as people not as a mathematical transaction…

sure that can be seen as one indicator amongst others that I am employing them, but is not the only one, nor the main one.

The most critical in determining whether employed or not is whether they have control over how they deliver their service or whether I control that - so they are able to substitute someone else if necessary / they are able to have choice in when those hours are delivered (eg my cleaner said she would prefer to do Tuesday rather than Wednesday last week - no issue for me, her choice in how she delivers the service of looking after us & house) I can ask her to do different days, but she has the autonomy to say no, whereas as an employee she would not have that… there are also other tests like does she use our kit and cleaning materials or hers (eg she brings her own vacuum cleaner etc)

so many elements to the test of whether employed or not and you have to be seen to be doing a significant proportion for the status to change - another big one is whether there are multiple or single clients etc

my approach is simply the old-fashioned way I was raised that you look after your staff because they look after you.

I was joking, calm down! I don't for a minute think the police will be reading mumsnet. However, your morals really need questioning. Are you happy with the quality of the NHS? Do you think our schools are well funded? Do you think that people with severe disabilities who cannot work and rely totally on benefits are living a comfortable life? Because if your answer to any of them is 'no' then take a look at yourself as you are part of the problem.

And no, small businesses don't all fiddle their taxes! Most people are more honest and have a considerably higher moral standing than you do from your gutter level thinking. It's no wonder this country struggles!

Even agency cleaners don't get holiday pay as they are self employed (mostly)
I had one client pay me £20 when they went away once (i earned £30 a week doing 2.5 hours there) but that was their choice and I didn't expect it

I could do with it and I don't work

No. The wage she sets herself reflects the lack of holiday and sick pay.

I have had a cleaner for years and I don’t work but am disabled. I pay my cleaner cash in hand. But I know she declares it as a relative of mine is her accountant. (She asked if I knew anyone).

We pay her if we are away but not if she is. Cash bonus and present at Christmas.