Cleaner who works 6 hours per week preferring cash in hand weekly - holiday pay? Is this a thing?

[Catwhispereroo]

Hi, we have a cleaning lady who is generally lovely. She comes for 6 hours per week, £20 per hour, so £120 per week. She always prefers cash in hand weekly.

Today she asked if we will pay her 4 weeks holiday pay as, according to her, 'everyone else does.'

I had a think about it, but have had to tell her this is not possible. I feel bad though. AIBU?

My reasoning is -

1. A cleaner is already quite a luxury, as I'm no longer working.

2. We have had lots of cleaners over the years and all preferred cash and none ever asked for holiday pay for cash in hand work.

3. I don't want the hassle of a contract setting out holiday pay or sickness pay (will that be next)? We are a just a private household, not a company.

4. I will give her a few weeks pay as a Xmas bonus anyway.

5. She seems to go abroad for a month each year. If we gave her 4 weeks pay, that would be almost £500. Then, if I got a replacement cleaner in for those weeks, that would be another £500!

6. When we go away I'm happy for her to come as usual (even though we don't really need this) so that she doesn't lose out financially. But I can't pay 4 weeks holiday as week.

Again, AIBU? Thanks!

Yep, same here but women and heaven forbid cleaners are not allowed to earn a decent hourly rate.

I think you need to explain to her the difference between employment and self employment. The first is that everything goes through the books and there is a report to the Inland Revenue each month and that tax and NIC might be deducted at source depending on her other income. The she'd get holiday pay/sick pay etc. Or she is self employed and it is then not your business to report to the Revenue and she doesn't get holiday pay etc.

Holiday pay is also called a retainer.

Anyone else surprised OP needs 6 hours a week and doesn't work herself

Thanks everyone. I explained that we are not her employers, she is self-employed. She said that other clients always paid her holiday. She reminded me she still has bills to pay when she's away. I replied I know this, as I was self-employed myself! Anyway, she thanked me and said she won't be coming back. So I said thanks for all your help and good luck.

She isn't earning enough to pay NI. Tax depends if she has other income and may or may not apply. Might not be the threat you think it is.

Perfect

I do agree, @Catwhispereroo we all have a responsibility bigger than ourselves here. Payment in cash enables tax evasion and benefit fraud as well as damaging legitimate businesses. I work for HMRC and one of our priorities is ‘Closing the Tax Gap’. Basically there’s a massive disconnect between what the country expects in tax and what is actually being declared. This in turn obviously affects the common man at the end of the day in terms of the funding available for essential services.

Cutting off her nose to spite her face there! Losing 120 a week, unless she has a waiting list of customers that won't be easy to fill.

No I don’t pay holiday pay. I think I should pay if I go away (and therefore the cleaner can’t come - she doesn’t have keys which is her choice) but she won’t hear of it.

I give a bonus and a gift at Christmas and buy small things for her daughter if I see something she’d like.

She was definitely trying it on. No way anyone pays her 4 weeks of holiday. She's hoping you'll cave and offer half or something.

Strange situation. I've never heard of a self employed person getting holiday pay.
Hope you find someone as good and reliable to replace her; it's not always easy.

How long was she your cleaner for that you gave her a few weeks bonus at Christmas?

Good for you for standing your ground. £20/hour is a very good rate for London, most charge £15 in my area of North London.

I’m having a hard time believing “everyone else” she cleans for pays her holiday pay. Self employed people aren’t entitled to holiday pay or sick pay. At least she solved any awkwardness for you by refusing to come back because you said no.

She'll walk straight in to another job. Cleaners are in high demand.

No, not in the slightest. People don't work and have full time nannies, housekeepers, chefs, dog walkers etc. There's a lot of very wealthy people who pay to have all areas of their life serviced. How is this a surprise in any way.

Is she paying tax on her earnings

I’m self employed and wouldn’t expect holiday pay from customers.

I don't think she'll have much trouble finding another job, but also I won't have any trouble finding another cleaner (if I can be bothered).

Come, to think of it, she started last summer. When we went away in August for 2 weeks, she was insistent on coming as normal because she 'didn't want to lose any money.' Fair enough, I was fine with that. I asked if she would like to pet sit for £50 per night. I thought it might work for her as she is single and I think all her clients are on this road (more or less), but she said no to that. Anyway, I was happy to pay her for those 2 weeks when we didn't actually need her. Then at Xmas, I gave her 2 more extra weeks pay. So she's not done too badly.

I usually pay half of the time we dont need her

That’s really interesting. I let my last cleaner go as I thought she was self employed but turns out in a conversation we had that she wasn’t declaring it. I felt so uncomfortable knowing that. I also felt it was dodgy ground that I could be seen as her employer and therefore complicit.

Iv since found out two other people I know quite well earn well in a second job “self employed” where the person engaging the services tho is they are doing a tax return and they aren’t.

Extrapolate that up by every single cleaner on this thread (bar one who seems to ask for help with accounts) and that’s a lot of tax.

LOL. No. If you can afford it, why not? Plenty of things I would rather do than clean.

Yes, I came to say all that @ConfusedSloth has. They have said it so well.

It's not actually illegal to be paid in cash you know

If they are really are from an agency (and by that I mean not a cleaning company where staff are on the pay roll), there is no way they are getting holiday pay. They are self employed too. What you pay the cleaner on the day of the clean is all they get - no holiday pay, travel time, travel expenses, nothing.