School and University

[NoMoreBigDaddy]

I would value advice - first time asking here, but I see a lot of helpful discussion here on Mumsnet so here I go...

DD has always been a stellar student - she goes to a good public school which has been expensive, but good for her I think. I have sacrificed quite a lot to send her there honestly - am not rich by any stretch of the imagination - but believe in the importance of a good education.

DD worked very hard and got fantastic GCSE's (all A's and A*) and now has been predicted three A's at A-Level very recently (she has just finished Lower 6th).. She wanted to apply to Oxbridge and had visited and liked oner of the colleges there a lot. However school just told her they would not support her application there now - they only want a limited number of people from the school to apply to Oxbridge and 'her grades aren't good enough' for her to be part of their little group 'allowed' to apply. Have suggested she looks for different uni's instead, even though many of them don't offer her chosen course.

Has anyone else come up against this? In my day (I am an old bugger now) we were free to apply anywhere we wanted. Some universities base admission on an interview and an individual test too.

AIBU to be angry about this? It feels like they are clipping her wings just when she needs their support the most. And 3 A grades as a prediction is good surely? She has now quietly gone back to her research though there have been tears. I honestly don't know - AIBU or not?

I know...first world problems and all that but it's my DD of course, so I am (very) biased. Thank you.

Not really. I attended a 6th form evening at a private school and the Head was quite proud of the 30+ children they'd assisted to Oxbridge interviews... In his words -'we get them into the room...'. They have teams dedicated to Oxbridge applications (usually includes Oxbridge graduates) and teams dedicated to US Ivy League applications.

Apologies as I haven't read the full thread. My daughter has an offer from Cambridge. She's been through the state system and is predicted 3 x A stars. Her offer is A star, AA but most people on her course will achieve higher than that. The college made it clear that if you've been through the state system, you are likely to get a lower offer than those who have been through the private system as they know state schools have generally more disruption to learning.

As a caveat, I don't know what the offers are for kids who are applying to her course from private schools so I've got no way to verify the truth in this.

Ah sorry. My Ds went state grammar but he wrote his own Personal statement. Reference writer reviewed and QAed but then after that all was done.

Yes there was Oxbridge help

I want OP to confirm what the course is at Oxford and then I'll be able to give better advice

It must be Oxford as there is no Cambridge course where the standard requirement is “only” 3 A grades.

Oxford have open days on Wednesday and Thursday next week. They don’t have to be booked in advance. I would suggest attending if possible OP and having a discussion with someone in admissions.

My son is at a state school and will need to write his own PS, although the schools do have a “next steps” advisor who will review it. The school also have to write their reference to include in the UCAS application.

Cambridge give their offer allocation broken down by independent or maintained school but within maintained it breaks out selective grammar school figures.

Yup absolutely. If DD doesn’t have the grades she doesn’t have the grades.

It’s sad that people still think that a good education only comes from private schools.

She should apply where she likes and to others she is more likely to get in to. And there is always clearing. It’s surprising rhe achool hasn’t told you this until now.

Just had a Quick Look at admission requirements on Oxford University’s website and some courses require AAA (see photo) so I would say go for it. It’s surely worth applying. In my sixth form college, we say have one aspirational choice, regular choices and then an insurance choice. I have heard that Oxbridge really value the interview process though so it is a shame if her current school won’t help her.

But when you put them on UCAS you don't put them in preference order, so schools won't be using that.

When schools say X% got into their first choice, then they mean on A-level day X% got into their choice (chosen from the offers they have) on UCAS, as opposed to insurance choice or clearing.
Any uni they didn't get into won't count in those statistics.

When I was applying to uni there was a lad who decided he wanted the experience of applying to Oxford. He knew he had little chance, and was thrilled to have an interview. He surprised himself how devasting he found getting a refusal letter, and said a number of years later that he wished the school had persuaded him not to apply because it really effected his confidence.

Thank you very much for comments all...it's been genuinely useful. I did get a couple of comments suggesting I repost elsewhere - actually I found the comments useful here and don't feel the need to repost.

What I will do first of all is sit down with DD properly this weekend and understand what she really wants to do here. I agree with comments that it is a good opportunity for her to advocate for herself and to take that on - I will support in a way that I have thought of, but be led by her. If the school is being very difficult, I will be annoyed but I don't want to move her for the sake of it for the Upper 6th of course. If she wants to not apply through UKAS now and see what she gets in the end, then she could do that too. I think a gap year - especially given she can do some work in a field of interest - may actually be very good for her. At least she would be applying with actual results. Naturally, will encourage her to step up on the study until then.

Though I don't agree with all comments of course, the advice overall has helped me take a more balanced perspective. Uncoupling my frustration from the key point of what DD really wants to do - it's her university choice (and life) after all.

Thanks again.

Best of luck to her - she's nothing to lose by applying this year & reapplying next if things don't work out for her. It is absolutely her choice, aftet all they'll be incurring a lot of debt. I wish her the best of luck☘️

I think you should remind the school that you are paying for their services- and as such they should be supporting your DD.
If she is predicted A grades, she may actually get A* grades as it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

She loses one spot on UCAS.

Better that than perhaps spend a life time wondering what if, what if, what if?.

Oxbridge isn't everything by huge measure, but she wants to try - why not? After all 4 or 5 choices, she can only go to one in the end.

So? She still has several others to use.

I think she should give it a go. She has nothing to lose by applying, other than one option. And if the worse comes to the worst she can have a gap year and apply the following year with grades in hand.

As others have said, the standard offer for many Oxford courses is AAA, though obviously many of those who are made that offer do better than that.

For what it’s worth (and it’s a few years ago) my children’s school said that Oxbridge expected applicants to do better than the average child at their school at GCSE. It might be worth checking what the average achievement is at your school and how it compares with your daughter’s.

If the course is a less popular/easier to get into one, she is obviously much more likely to be offered an interview and then she will be judged on her performance at that.

According to the stats on Oxford’s website, between 2022-2024 on average 93% of music applicants to were interviewed (and 41% were successful). 94% of modern languages applicants were interviewed (42% successful) and 96% of classics applicants were interviewed (35% successful).

Those are pretty high proportions and I imagine that your daughter would have a decent chance of an interview in one of those subjects. Less so, if she was applying for PPE (38% interviewed, 12% accepted), law (31% interviewed, 10% accepted) or medicine (25% interviewed, 9% accepted).

Good luck! She’ll never know if she doesn’t try.

Has She done mocks recently? What did she get?

She can apply where she likes! Her GCSEs are certainly good enough for Oxford, whether or not she gets an interview will also depend on how she does in any admissions test, eg the HAT for History, ELAT for English etc. You can look at previous papers online, they are supposed to test aptitude for the subject rather than how well the student has been coached. There is a lot of good information on the Oxford University website. I'd try and get her to an Open Day so she has the opportunity to talk to the lecturers. For humanities, the standard offer is AAA and everyone gets the same offer.

My guess is that the school's Oxbridge prep is quite intense - extra tutoring for interviews, mock interviews, maybe even test prep - and they want to limit the resources they spend. But they can't stop her applying. They could, in theory, tank her reference but that would be a very silly thing to do - and would probably only make the admissions team wonder what the school were doing (this happened to my DH, the school said something really damning with faint praise and the tutors just outright told him they ignored it).

As a lecturer and someone with an Oxbridge degree, I think she should apply. Yes, most accepted candidates will get above AAA, but the interview and tests matter more than predicted grades. An interviewee with a spark, who says interesting things and shows deep engagement with the course, and who can meet the grades, is likely to get in over an interviewee who performs worse but has predicted 3 x A*.

Personally, I would advise she takes a year out and applies with her actual grades next year. The school are less likely to object (they won't be prepping her) and she'll be in a stronger place.

The Open Days are 2nd and 3rd of July and 19th September. You may have to book for some subject sessions.