Everyone being so over the top / pushy doctor?

[Manchildd]

Hi everyone.
currently on holiday in Cyprus. I have 2 heart conditions, prolonged QT and SVT. Just to paint a picture a few years ago I discovered the two. I started having seizures and it wasn't a good time. I had to stop driving and spent a long time in hospital. Fast forward 3 years I'm driving again, living a normal life on medication etc.

i do get heart spikes, most days in fact. Due to these two conditions my heart sits at about 110 and eating is a trigger. All I need to do is chill out, take my medication and it'll pass.
last night at dinner with everyone around me my heart spiked to about 124 (this is nothing, it can go to 200s)

the protocol from my cardio team is that if I have a seizure / if my heart spikes to 160+ for 10 minutes or more then I go to hospital.

when I'd finished my food we left to go back to the room. I went up to a staff member and kindly asked if someone could collect us as I don't feel very well. There were a couple of nurses in earshot that then started ordering chairs, asking to give me space and asked what's the matter. I said to them my heart is a little quick but this happens ALL THE TIME and I just need to get back to the room. They wouldn't let me and quite literally blocked me from going. They were taking my pulse and it was 124. They then instructed staff for an ambulance. This was working me up by this point as nobody was listening. I didn't need an ambulance I just needed to go back and chill out. Ambulance was called.

my brother at this point told everyone to calm down and cancel the ambulance. They did.

instead they had asked the staff to call a doctor.
doctor game and immediately said I need to go to hospital (without doing a single check.) I know my body. Nobody was listening to me. When everyone realised that I'm not going, I had to sign a waiver saying I was refusing treatment. The doctor was very pushy for me to go, he demanded my passport details, address, GP details etc.

eventually my heart rate settled (as it always does) and the doctor saw that I was fine. But I felt so pressured he even got a cardiologist on the phone to me on his phone saying you have to come in and have bloods and be admitted. Saying that I could die. All of this hyperbole over something that happens to me most days. Nobody was listening.

the doctor then said I need to pay him €150 for the visit. I questioned this as I never called a doctor. A lot of people at dinner were drunk (I don't drink) and it was so dramatic. Realising I wasn't getting out of the €150 I paid it. Realising he has charged be twice x2 €150!!!! He then started being super nice saying everyone was being dramatic and that he will call me tomorrow (today) to refund the €150.

do I ask for the full €300 back? AIBU to think this is ridiculous? I felt so cornered and claustrophobic. These nurses were telling me to breathe into paper bags, to clear space, shouting 'SHES GOING TO HAVE A SEIZURE' - I haven't had a seizure in 3 years. I have my license back and cleared for driving. At no point was I worried. I have a device in my chest that alerts me if I'm in arrhythmia and it didn't go off. I tried to explain this. It happens nearly every time I eat an evening meal. I wasn't in SVT and medication corrects my prolonged QT.

just feel so shit about it all today. I just feel like there was lots of hyperbole and people wanting to be the hero / medical professional out of work times. Perhaps im being harsh but the 2 nurses weren't even listening to me. They kept telling me I need to do this I need to do that. I know what I need to do, I have protocol from my team and I wasn't panicking. I was just getting pissed off no one was listening to me and now I've ended up being charged $300 for the experience!

thanks for reading so sorry it's long.

Pardon? Translation please!

Medical purple?
Metal staff?

What?

You have frequent episodes of set and are still driving? Do you inform DVLA ?

Glad you got €200 back, but I'd contact your back to do a chargeback for the remaining €100. An unwanted Dr rifling through your bag for your passport and phone sound a bit scammy.

I'm sure the Dr will figure out he could charge it to the hotel.

Write down in bullet points what you have said here. Reiterate that you were embarrassed and not being listened to. Submit it to the hotel and ask who they think should pay for the doctor. Seek out the nurses and say that you were grateful that they were trying to help but they were clearly drunk and not listening to you. Hopefully the hotel will cover the doctor’s cost?

OP you have to ask for your money back

i I don’t agree with you on the other aspects but on this one it’s ridiculous to impose that on you
Pick a fight with the hotel on this one not the doctor

also 150 is too much for Cyprus , doesn’t make sense at all

Sorry to butt in, but I was told by a cardiologist you can have an svt every single day and as long as it doesn’t cause passing out or collapsing or blacking out, you don’t need to inform the dvla. Even if you need cardioverted with electricity regularly, need adenosine regularly, have heart rates of 250 regularly- you don’t need to tell the DVLA unless it causes collapsing. As long as you don’t collapse/black out or faint or have seizures from it, you don’t need to tell them… Honestly I was shocked by this as I assumed you’d need to tell them irrespective of whether you black out or not!

hope you’re feeling better soon OP. That sounds like a horrible experience and I hope you can enjoy the rest of your holiday! xx

I’m sorry for you.
It’s a real issue when medical staff don’t listen to the expert in a longstanding medical condition - the patient or child patient’s parents. Arrogance is dangerous.

I'm experienced in this field.

I'm not sure how SVT relates to seizures: that's a new one on me.

So: prolonged SVT will require an ambulance/hospital as it can compromise cardiac output and lead to hameodynamic instability. Adenosine IV or even electrical cardio version/chemical cardio version may be required. That can't be done outsider of hospital.

If you take tablets to treat the SVT (I'm guessing a beta blocker or flecainide ) then I'd have taken it and gone to your room and waited for it to abate.

YABU as you know your condition, the history with it and how best to treat it and when to seek help. Your issue started when you flagged up that you needed assistance as you didn't feel well. Then expected drs and nurses to ignore a pulse rate (that as you rightly say can go up to 200) with adverse symptoms in your case (feeling unwell) no responsible medic is going to walk away and ignore that without offering the safest course of action.

YANBU for knowing your condition and how best to treat it

YABU for flagging up that you didn't feel well and expecting trained healthcare professionals not to act on that In the context.

You approached the staff, you said you didn’t feel well, you then mentioned your heart. I can see why people leapt in to action. They were trying to help. In future, if these episodes are so common place for you and genuinely nothing to worry about, I would probably say ‘just a headache’ or ‘dodgy tummy’. Talking about a raised pulse, heart rate, seizures and the device in your heart is bound to get medical professionals panicking. I would accept the refund for the 1 x €150 and just pay the other €150. You did raise the alarm.

I think the point here is consent. OP asked for simple help - a buggy to her room, freely available for all residents. She explained that she didn’t feel well and that it was a diagnosed and treated condition she managed herself, and that all she needed to do was to rest in her room. She was ignored while people took it into their own hands to escalate the situation, put hands on her without her consent and generally treated her as though she lacked mental capacity.

Then despite not calling for, or needing a doctor, OP was charged. To top it all, the nurses who had a hand in this were drunk on holiday and a doctor was searching through OP’s belongings for insurance documents so he could be paid !! Had this happened in the UK it would have made the headlines and probably a lawsuit would have ensued. Posters thinking that any of this was reasonable or in any way attributable to OP for requesting a buggy because she wasn’t feeling well need to give their heads a wobble.

No, she didn’t raise the alarm. She advised them she didn’t feel well and that it was a diagnosed condition she managed herself. She did not consent to anything that came after, including unnecessarily calling a doctor.

And similarly if trained healthcare professionals ignored an SVT with adverse symptoms (feeling unwell) - that would have also hit the headlines. "Young woman dies on holiday as drs and nurses walk away when woman refused an ambulance despite a heart rate of 200bpm"

Drs and nurses if offering help when in public can still be sued/struck off for their acts or omissions. Sadly that's why a lot will stay quiet when "is there a Dr or nurse in the building?" Happens.

It does sounds as though the nurses, although acting with all good intentions, were very much less than discreet.
Put this down to experience and perhaps have a short note with you at all times which clearly explains what is happening, you can show this to any ‘Good Samaritan’ rather than trying to verbally convey your PMH.
Hope you feel ok today.

I surrendered my license after my first ever seizure. I did not drive until I was 12 months seizure free.
when my heart spikes, it only happens after I eat and weirdly only usually happens at night time.

I am free to drive, I don't have dizzy spells or any symptoms that would impair driving or danger myself or other road users.

DVLA and insurance are all aware of my medical conditions and I was signed off fit to drive by my cardiologist, and also a neurologist to confirmed the seizures were non-epileptic and he discharged me from his care.

if I were to have a seizure or a loss of consciousness then I would stop driving immediately and go on the advice of the professionals like I have done.

But she didn’t ask trained healthcare professionals to get involved. She asked a hotel employee for a buggy because she wasn’t feeling well. The fact that a bunch of drunk nurses on holiday overheard and took it on themselves to act isn’t down to OP.

That's okay! I've explained in my previous post about driving. I've done everything by the letter and informed everyone who needed to be informed. :)

There’s no prospect of being struck off when acting in accordance with a patient’s refusal of consent where the patient has apparent mental capacity.

In my view it’s better that the rare patient dies because that patient has chosen to refuse consent to medical input than for there to be a culture of medical staff feeling free to disregard lack of consent in all patients. There should be more criminal prosecution of medical staff who act without consent.

My SVT doesn't relate to seizures. It's the prolonged QT that does and I have both conditions annoyingly.

It wouldn’t happen in the UK. You can’t call doctors to hotels for one and secondly doctors also don’t charge you in the UK. There wouldn’t have been a lawsuit. In the same scenario, the OP would have just refused to get in an ambulance. The ambulance would have gone, had the hotel been insistent about calling one.

I didn't flag up that I needed medical assistance.
I asked for a buggy back to the room as I didn't feel well.

at no point did I flag that I needed any medical assistance.

I didn't mention the seizures or anything else. The nurses did. I didn't.

Oh yeah sorry I wasn’t questioning whether you should have informed the dvla or not, apologies if I came across like that. I just meant to reply to the other poster querying about driving with svt xx

Yes arrogance is dangerous. And asking for assistance and trained nurses and drs providing that assistance, and then not allowing them to act when they see an emergency (SVT with adverse symptoms) is arrogance. The problem was op flagged up she needed help and then didn't want the help offered.

I mean , if I was the person helping you. I'd have let you take your flecainide/beta blocker, sat with you and timed the episode and waited for 15 minutes with a timer on (and observed you for signs of compromise) if the SVT hadn't abaited after 15 mins- I'd have called an ambulance. But then I have specific knowledge in this field.

You've put it much better than I did. Thank you. This is exactly what happened.