To think gestation outside the body is a fab idea

[Allotmentblackfly]

Recent research makes the possibility of gestating a baby outside a woman’s body possible. Do we think this is a good idea or not?

Nicer than surrogacy for the surrogate,
But weird for the baby and probably not as good as being in a mother as mum and baby are so symbiotic. You know how breastmilk adapts to a babies needs biologically in a way that formula doesn't? Like that times a million.

I don't find the idea the liberating for women - liberation is more than just stopping doing 'women stuff' - but more than that I agree with previous posters about how horrific it would be for babies as a routine thing.

Even as someone who suffered life threatening complications of pregnancy, I think this is a terrible idea. A recording won't substitute for the natural rhythm of being with the mother in the womb, all the sounds, movement, emotions. There is a special bond feeling your baby grow and move inside you, going through labour to bring that child into the world. Even for the father, seeing the baby grow as my belly does, feeling the spontaneous movements just as we sit together or are drifting off to sleep, all part of parenting and bonding before birth. I think these things matter.

(And before someone says 'what about adoption, I'm just as bonded without being pregnant' and other things, I'm not saying other situations don't work, this is just based on my experience which is more traditional).

Our biology is used to oppress us, but it's not the cause of women's oppression, so I think this falls down.

I sincerely hope you are not anywhere near pregnant women in your career or general life. Your comments are disgusting. Just because you’ve given birth 4 times and obviously thought ‘what on earth do women make such a fuss over’ does not negate any other women’s experience of pain.

Disgusting comment from a fellow ‘woman’. Really disgusting.

I am sure that babies are more traumatised by being in an incubator than an artificial womb where all their biological needs would be met. yes, they would miss hearing their mum's heart beat, but so does a baby in an incubator. I'm talking about saving lives of premature babies here though, not a whole gestation in an artificial womb. Although I have a feeling that an artificial womb would not be as damaging emotionally as people may think - obviously I may be wrong there. There are tiny babies who are in incubators from 24 weeks in neonatal intensive care - they make good attachments to their mothers. Prior to 18 - 19 weeks I don't think babies can hear very well in the womb so hearing the mothers heart beat is not relevant at that stage.

Why are they disgusting. Yes, they may be 'tongue in cheek' with bit of humor and yes I am not a natural midwife or obstetrician. And I am most careful and protective of pregnant women as they are doing an incredible and sometimes dangerous job. The human body is marvellous but flawed - it can give birth to healthy babies but we all know that things don't always go marvellously. Why not think outside the box about what life might be like if we did not have to go through all that. And don't worry, its not going to happen any time soon !!!!!

I absolutely love the idea of an artificial womb as I hated every single part being pregnant and giving birth. I wouldn’t wish that horror on anyone. I would have had several babies if I had access to one of these. In an ideal world you’d carry it around with you and always keep it close, so the mum and dad could both take turns wearing it.

As a way of making prem babies healthier then that is a good goal.

I don't think we can replicate the womb experience though, even if we can keep them alive there is so much more. Babies taste their mother's food through the amniotic fluid and hear the sounds of their family before birth, they feel the movement of her walking and they hear the sound of her heart and feel the chemical reactions of her emotions. Keeping something alive is the most basic level.

https://www.timesnownews.com/health/worlds-first-artificial-womb-facility-to-grow-30000-babies-a-year-in-birth-pods-parents-can-design-child-article-96231371. Not sure if this link will work.. Read this yesterday. Let's hope the ethical ban on using embryos continues.

It would save a fortune on maternity clothes!

You seem desperate to push this ghastly idea @Allotmentblackfly Why?

Sounds like Brave New World. No thanks. Babies need to grow in the way God intended!

Your previous post outlining the benefits clearly wasn’t purely relating to very premature babies. Babies need their mothers pre-birth, not just as a vessel to carry the child but for the million ways in which the mother and babies bodies interact during pregnancy.

I’m a mum through adoption, I love my kids more than life itself. I also recognise they are impacted by losing that bond with their birth mum formed I the womb pre-birth.

I had four babies, I didn't like the early part where I felt sick but I did love the later part where they were moving and kicking and I could feel a connection with them. I even quite liked giving birth. It made me appreciate my body in a way I hadn't before and haven't since. It showed me how powerful it could be on a primeval level. I had four easy home births so my view on giving birth is a positive one. Yes, it does hurt but it is more than just pain. I feel sad for those who didn't get a positive experience and obviously safe delivery is priority but I think artificial birthing pods could take something away from the female experience and therefore the human experience.

In a sci-fi world where the artificial womb did as good a job as my own and didn’t cost a fortune, I would have jumped at the chance. I hated being pregnant.

I wonder what we might lose as parents, though. With natural gestation there’s 9 months to come to terms with the idea of a new life coming. The physical impact of pregnancy means most mothers have to assess their lives and learn to accommodate. It’s hard to avoid the idea that something momentous is happening. The excitement of feeling the first movements and the natural growth of the bump all leading to the big day. It’s very physical and, I would say, quite primal. Men, to a much lesser extent, can also connect to the growth of their child, but it’s not as forced on them and they sometimes opt out.

I think the way women tend to adapt to motherhood faster and better than men tend to adapt to fatherhood is, in part, down to our having lived with pregnancy. Losing that could have unintended consequences. Possibly replaceable by rituals that bring us closer to our growing baby, but then would the advantages of an external womb be all but lost anyway?

Yes I get that. It’s very personal isn’t it. Some people love it and some don’t. Does make me wonder if I would feel so viscerally connected to my vpchildren if I had not given birth. However I have an adopted sibling and I know my parents are just as connected to them as they are to me so who knows

really interesting

Is this so men can claim they have given birth or carried a baby?

can they honestly not put the money from this research into something else?

I guess I’ve always liked to think about where evolution might take us next. I became interested in the idea of an artificial womb after by obstetrics placement back in the day. I guess I didn’t enjoy it. I was very young and found it quite scary especially as I was very poor at practical things. Thankfully I got through the whole thing without harming anyone - mainly by looking as incompetent as I felt so no one gave me any responsibility. Rest assured that I never have to do anything practical in my day to day work now - phew!!!

Brave New World.

appalling idea

I find your thought process extremely disturbing.

Who is this suppose to benefit because it's certainly not women or children?

This will definitely happen for good or for bad.
Rich women are less and less inclined to have pregnancies. Rich countries are the countries with declining populations. Ie the ones who could afford to invest in this and who want the best and most successful women to have children. The super rich already use surrogates. In 100 years it will only be the very poor who physically carry and birth their own children. Just as wet nurses were routinely used until last century by the wealthy, until the advent of bottle feeding.

https://theconversation.com/artificial-wombs-could-someday-be-a-reality-heres-how-they-may-change-our-notions-of-parenthood-217490
interesting article here