To wonder how smart do you actually have to be for some professions?

[Jigaliga]

Inspired by a comment on another thread...

Do you really have to be genuinely intelligent to be a doctor, lawyer, etc? Or is it just putting in the grind and a good education?

I guess to be an academic you would have to be intelligent. To be a barrister too, but maybe not to be a solicitor? What about accountants?

@vivainsomnia Also how does anyone prove this? We keep hearing it but the only people who get jobs through connections are in family firms - their firm! Everyone else competes like hell for a job! They stand or fall by their own qualities. Parents are not allowed to have anything to do with hiring and dc usually don’t apply to the same place anyway. Plenty of doctors have dc who are doctors etc. I think the advantage is knowing the ropes. Advising. They cannot get dc a job though.

I notice that a lot of people in professions such as law/banking/accountancy are very "task oriented" and not necessarily high on the "creative" end of intelligence. They are typically very good at getting things done and managing processes and tasks, but rarely think outside the box and are often frightened of genuinely new ideas.

Academia is not remotely comparable to the professions in my opinion. A lot of academics I have known are not particularly bright but are professional daydreamers who have shied away from getting "real" jobs and ended up getting lots and lots of degrees instead.

Connections do go a long way in the professions (not so much in academia) but they only take you so far. You can coast on connections for a couple of years but if you're not bright and don't work hard you will eventually run out of road.

They probably read a lot, I have good general knowledge, but i was average at best academically
But I enjoy reading and as a child would read anything and everything ,and picked up general knowledge from everything.

There’s been, and I sincerely hope continues to be, a gradual shift in access. In 2000 paid internships at my place of work were given to the former public school friends of one of the senior people (his own old school of course) whereas now there is a full scheme targeted specifically at people at schools with traditionally low rates of participation in university with a view to a permanent role at the end (without a degree required).

Of course at the same time we know too that young people who have the resources to do unpaid internships have an enormous advantage in their careers, thereby narrowing opportunity. So swings and roundabouts.

The vast majority of lawyers at top firms are absolutely nowhere near £500k. You would only get in excess of that from equity partnership distributions, salary would only go above £300,000 very exceptionally. NQ salaries have gone up hugely in recent years but associate salaries have just bunched.

I’d know, I am one.

You can be very intelligent but have zero common sense. Drs and lawyers etc need to be good at retaining information and will likely have great knowledge of their field. But that doesn't mean anything for their knowledge of anything else.

Yeah same - if exams were pub quizzes I’d have been amazing at school.

Taxi drivers are often great at starting conversations with strangers, which is a great way of gaining knowledge

It isn't intelligence at all. It is rote memory.

Confidence plays a huge part. I hit a ceiling at middle management level because I've always had anxiety around work (not in any other areas of my life though) and awful imposter syndrome, I'm scared to commit to a decision without running it past someone higher up and terrified of making a mistake.

The directors I've worked for haven't necessarily been more intelligent than me but they've had the confidence to make decisions.

I meet lots of junior doctors in my job now. What strikes me is not only their intelligence but evidence of a strong work ethic, and in the main excellent manners and people skills.
You need to persevere the get a degree or any qualification. And you need to listen, think critically and to be able to communicate.
Ideally .... I wonder what AI is going to do to higher education. Nothing good I fear in term of it's potential to facilitate shortcuts and cheating.

In terms of privilege and it's links with achievement if you grow up and can see that hard work is rewarded there is incentive to work hard at school and beyond. If you grow up in an environment where possibilities seem very limited, parents on benefits etc the outlook will look very different.

😂😂 it’s not a 50/50 split but I know what you mean, and no surprises.

The word ‘privilege’ or ‘privileged’ is used a lot in these sort of discussions.

I always question - what is privilege? Define privilege. As per define intelligence.

Some people have the binary notion of it being ‘state’ or private school (forgetting that state schools and private schools vary wildly), rich or poor parents.

Research shows us that the no.1 most influential factor in defining a child’s success in life, is whether they had 2 present and supportive parents.

So is that a type of privilege? I’d suggest so if we’re going to throw about the word ‘privilege’ in relation to ‘intelligence’ and job title. But no one seems to consider it, it falls into the ‘too difficult to quantify’ box.

Agree. I don’t believe you have to be particularly intelligent to be a doctor, and a medical degree is definitely easier than some other degrees.

I’m married to a University Professor and I was an academic Librarian.

We have had a lifetime moving amongst the alleged intelligentsia. Does that mean that we all made the right decisions in all aspects of our professional and personal lives? Absolutely not.

‘Wisest is she who knows she knows nothing’ attributed to Plato showing genuine wisdom. I think that sums it all up.

DH and some of his colleagues work is life changing for the masses. I don’t know anything about some of his research as he had to sign the official secrets act. It’s a shame really, all he said was this has the potential to save millions of lives. It’s a shame that this modest and unassuming man will never have public recognition for what he has achieved.
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Because working with thickos would take away the mental stimulation required to preserve sanity - that’s why.

As for not knowing what the job entails, I presume you don’t vote. How would you vote for someone without knowing what you expect from them.

I would never assume someone is or isn't intelligent based on what they do for a living. I know chefs and farmers very intelligent and doctors with zero common sense and unable to think outside their area of training.

@Sdpbody
You know doctors actually have to make decisions right? Based on a whole lot more than just med school training. Decisions such as ‘on the balance of probability this person was likely unwell at the time of the crime and this can be evidenced by x, y and z although the environmental factors of a and b may cast doubt on this’ and actually stand up in ditty and explain their working out. That’s not rote learning. It’s a job with huge responsibility.

Connections count but in a global company less important -a good PhD would help

I'm an academic. I'm not very intelligent. You just have to work very long hours and be self-motivating.

In my field the most successful people are privately educated so have good networks, have penises so that is apparently a requirement, and have wives who pick up all the slack so they can sit in the office writing until 11pm and come back to a clean house, dinner and kids tucked up in bed.

court not ditty!

Of course, they’re smart and intelligent, if that’s the answer you’re looking for. However, there are many smart and intelligent people with different careers or even without jobs. Intelligence is subjective, and the only way to assess someone’s intelligence is through conversation with them. Your intuition and biases will affect how you see someone's intelligence. It’s not their job that determines their intelligence.

Oh come on ,it's not a job just anyone can do you have to have very high Alevel grades in highly academic subjects just to get into medical school
I used to be a nurse so have worked with many Dr's even the less driven Dr's were far more academically able then most people.

Depends on your definition of “intelligence “.

@feelingbleh Try being a family law barrister with no common sense! Impossible. Of course high earning people in that profession have common sense.

Don't be ridiculous
There are people who csn work all the hours in the world and be very self motivated but not achieve very much because they lack actual intelligence.

Are you asking if we live in a meritocracy? No, we don’t. There will be people of lower intelligence earning more for less work than peers with higher intelligence. Realising this is actually liberating- you can succeed without lots of graft/grind, drop the busy work if it doesn’t serve you